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Post by CharlesX on Aug 29, 2021 18:38:47 GMT
After checking the search bar, I was surprised to see apparently this site hasn't had a poll on the gender of the members! I've always thought of Fighting Fantasy as a bit male, CYOA only a little less so. But I grew up before Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Harry Potter, and Twilight. So, what's your gender? Yes, this is a binary poll - if anyone here were to be transgender they would pick the gender they identify with - or not respond - problem solved (I'm not writing a multi-thousand word essay either way, like bloody JK). Polling is locked Moday September 13th 4:30 P.M.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Aug 29, 2021 21:20:52 GMT
I hope you get at least one female vote by then. Since Tammy deleted her second account, I think our only female member with a decent number of posts is occasional visitor Klea.
I think we all know this place makes a Star Trek convention look like a Zumba class.
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Post by philsadler on Aug 30, 2021 10:30:45 GMT
Oh. I can't take part in this poll because my normal gender of 'Male' isn't there.
Oh well.
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 30, 2021 13:43:46 GMT
Oh. I can't take part in this poll because my normal gender of 'Male' isn't there. Oh well. I could have just put male and female, but it was more important for me to give the finger to J K, at the same time, being a hypocrite who doesn't have a third option. Hope that gets things straight 😛. Edit: I can't win really. You've just illustrated the problem with putting 'male\female', the words 'normal gender' sounds borderline anti LGBT, the way my poll puts it wins the student crowd, but sounds slightly PC. My way is a compromise which satisfies neither you nor Pride nor J K (who you realise by now I don't always like) ✊👍.
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Post by The Count on Aug 30, 2021 23:01:50 GMT
I don't identify as anything, I am.
If you need to "identify" as something, then you are making it up.
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 31, 2021 5:27:01 GMT
In response to popular suggestion this poll is clumsily worded, I am creating a new poll and urging any one interested in this poll (both guys) to get with the programme and vote in the new poll.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Aug 31, 2021 5:49:39 GMT
Oh. I can't take part in this poll because my normal gender of 'Male' isn't there. Oh well. I could have just put male and female, but it was more important for me to give the finger to J K, at the same time, being a hypocrite who doesn't have a third option. Hope that gets things straight 😛. Edit: I can't win really. You've just illustrated the problem with putting 'male\female', the words 'normal gender' sounds borderline anti LGBT, the way my poll puts it wins the student crowd, but sounds slightly PC. My way is a compromise which satisfies neither you nor Pride nor J K (who you realise by now I don't always like) ✊👍. I'm curious, was it something specific in her famous essay that caused you to dislike her? She's become such a focal point in gender flame wars debates. People with more extreme views than her on either side define themselves as for or against her.
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 31, 2021 6:31:59 GMT
I could have just put male and female, but it was more important for me to give the finger to J K, at the same time, being a hypocrite who doesn't have a third option. Hope that gets things straight 😛. Edit: I can't win really. You've just illustrated the problem with putting 'male\female', the words 'normal gender' sounds borderline anti LGBT, the way my poll puts it wins the student crowd, but sounds slightly PC. My way is a compromise which satisfies neither you nor Pride nor J K (who you realise by now I don't always like) ✊👍. I'm curious, was it something specific in her famous essay that caused you to dislike her? She's become such a focal point in gender flame wars debates. People with more extreme views than her on either side define themselves as for or against her. I think J K is a hypocrite and a bigot who claims she is several things under the sun ('survivor of a sexual assault' 'left wing' 'pro union\Democrat') while denying others the right to do that, I agree with Pride instead of picking pointless fights she should send a formal letter of apology.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Sept 4, 2021 6:36:15 GMT
I think J K is a hypocrite and a bigot who claims she is several things under the sun ('survivor of a sexual assault' 'left wing' 'pro union\Democrat') while denying others the right to do that, I agree with Pride instead of picking pointless fights she should send a formal letter of apology. Is this the writer of Harry Potter we are talking about here or Genghis [F-ing] Khan? I've not followed this "JKR is an arch-heretic" controversy closely because I think these culture wars are sending people round the bend and I'd sooner stick to specific cases I know a bit more about. BUT The last part of your sentence there - she should send a formal letter of apology - I think that is wrong because the 'orthodoxy-sniffers' (Copyright term George Orwell) who are baying for her blood won't be appeased by this. Weakness and cowering merely emboldens them, like how a dog can sense your fear. Forced public apologies, struggle sessions, trial by twitter hate-mob. No thanks.
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 4, 2021 10:45:36 GMT
I feel we aren't on the same page. If I were to compare Rowling to a world leader it would be a controversial one like Cromwell, Churchill or Cameron. And while I think Orwell was a good enough writer, I'm not exactly his number one fan. The thing about freedom of speech is, it means you're entitled to voice unpleasant views, deeply unpleasant in this case in my view. It doesn't mean you're entitled to praise or even recognition. And it doesn't touch on the right to campaign against views as well as for. The point I concede about J K is her Coroman Strike novel Troubled Blood, where (some) critics took the premise of a male killer who wore woman's clothes and worked on the presumption that was anti-Pride, for no other reason than their dislike of J K. I think most of her messages and essay .
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Sept 4, 2021 11:56:10 GMT
If I were to compare Rowling to a world leader it would be a controversial one like Cromwell, Churchill or Cameron. Or if we are focussing on leaders beginning with 'c' maybe Corbyn, Che or Chavez? I note the recent attempts by certain political trends to topple and smash the idols and heroes of the past and replace them with their own. A drip drip of "[insert name here] is controversial or problematic" is making its way into 'public discourse'. We can see what the ultimate aim is. But two points here - I don't understand what any of those leaders have got to do with JKR, beyond an idea (in your mind) that they are 'controversial' and that so is she. The second point is the irony that I would place Cromwell and the Puritans squarely of the same mould as the current political puritans. Do you not see the parallel? I would also draw your attention to Robespierre as an example, too. The thing about freedom of speech is, it means you're entitled to voice unpleasant views, deeply unpleasant in this case in my view. It doesn't mean you're entitled to praise or even recognition. And it doesn't touch on the right to campaign against views as well as for. I do agree with you to a certain extent but I have a slightly different take on this. We are seeing not freedom of speech and open debate but rather 'you are either with us or against us', and 'apologise or be silenced' and 'get rid of those books and don't let it be seen on the telly'. [Edit: I'm not pointing this comment at YOU, Charles X, but at what am am seeing in general] I could sing the praises of George Orwell all day. Ex policeman in Burma, ex Spanish Civil War veteran shot in the throat, someone who actually went out and met and lived with the urban poor and saw how they lived. I like his essays as much as his famous novels. I feel we aren't on the same page. I'm sure you are right here, and that's ok. But whether or not any of what is being discussed here is relevant on a forum about Fighting Fantasy gamebooks is questionable to say the least. I believe I've said before I think political and religious debate is absolute fucking cancer on forums like these. We've had 'Thatcher is scum' (so what does that make the people who voted for her I wonder?) inanely shouted out elsewhere on another thread and now full-on identity politics is here. There is an entire internet out there to talk about stuff like this. I recommend Twitter and the bottom half of Youtube. At the most it should be kept to private messages between individual members. For me, though, (and this is directed at the mods here) I would rather it all be deleted off Fighting Fantazine forum, fed into a woodchipper and scattered in the English Channel. Or Kill it with fire. No good is going to come of this and if it's not nipped in the bud it is going to get worse or people will drift away.
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Post by The Count on Sept 4, 2021 12:24:55 GMT
There is an entire internet out these to talk about stuff like this. I recommend Twitter and the bottom half of Youtube. There is no talking on "social" media platforms such as twattir or facebook - just a screeching, baying mob screaming into an echo chamber and becoming more extreme, divisive, twisted, deranged and hypocritical. Why anyone in the political realm actually pays attention to what is ultimately a disproportionately vocal minority taking over a platform used by a minority of people is a mystery. Or shows a complete and utter lack of spine and desire to become popular with those that loathe them. I do enjoy a robust debate, especially on contentious subjects, but unfortunately debate is something that doesn't happen these days. Which is why I never use twattir, and the only facebook account I have is a "phantom" one I had to create for work which I have never posted from but handily allows me to join groups such as the FF one, one dedicated to my favourite band and several others which provide useful info for work. Besides, surely anyone truly believing in the gender ideology being espoused would have at least put an "other" option in for those who believe that there are more than 2 genders.
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 4, 2021 12:40:58 GMT
Mentioning world leaders was an attempt to respond to bloodbeasthandler's remark about Ghengis Khan, while I feel he dealt with my points well. I have to say I feel I've led this gender debate pretty poorly and I almost feel ashamed of the direction this thread has taken ; I feel like those women on the site will have been put off by my our posts.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 4, 2021 13:19:50 GMT
I think these culture wars are sending people round the bend Always a bit nervous about weighing in on this issue as it has often been a destroyer of forums, and I like this place way too much for that! But without getting too much into my own stance, I share your impatience with Twitter flame wars and find them pretty pointless since it's basically those who already agree with one another high-fiving each other. But I think simplifying the transgender debate to a "culture war" ignores that there are real people impacted by it. JKR and her group claim that granting transwomen access to female spaces could endanger women or at least make them uncomfortable, and that trans-inclusive language is demeaning to women. Those on the other side argue that banning transwomen from female spaces is cruel and puts them in danger, and that failing to use trans-inclusive language dismisses the transperson's gender identity. While it's fair to say that both sides may have a point, there is plenty of data on transwomen being attacked in male spaces vs women being attacked by people claiming to be trans, and there are studies on how ciswomen react to trans-inclusive language vs how transpeople react to trans-exlusive language. And I feel this is where Rowling lets herself down by not really engaging with this data and instead sticking to her guns and cherry-picking examples that suit her stance rather than looking at the wider data. And while she claims not to be transphobic, she has been seen to support those that are. She certainly didn't do herself any favours by having a cross-dressing murderer in her latest book! Probably not, but appeasing such folk wouldn't be the point of an apology. A prominent figure on the 'gender critical' side stating she was wrong would have quite an impact on the debate. Anyway, back to Fighting Fantasy!
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Post by petch on Sept 4, 2021 16:14:51 GMT
Mentioning world leaders was an attempt to respond to bloodbeasthandler's remark about Ghengis Khan, while I feel he dealt with my points well. I have to say I feel I've led this gender debate pretty poorly and I almost feel ashamed of the direction this thread has taken ; I feel like those women on the site will have been put off by my our posts. Don't beat yourself up over it, you clearly weren't trying to cause offence. Definitely agree with bloodbeasthandler though that this forum isn't the place for this kind of debate.
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Post by anson on Sept 5, 2021 9:57:55 GMT
Well if the poll does end up with a 100% male / 0% female result, it won't be a surprise but I'm sure it would be different if FF had hit peak popularity in today's society, instead of back in the 80's. Back then there was a lot more "Why are you reading that, it's for boys/girls!"pressure which thankfully matters much less these days.
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Post by The Count on Sept 6, 2021 23:56:39 GMT
Well if the poll does end up with a 100% male / 0% female result, it won't be a surprise but I'm sure it would be different if FF had hit peak popularity in today's society, instead of back in the 80's. Back then there was a lot more "Why are you reading that, it's for boys/girls!"pressure which thankfully matters much less these days. Even in the 80s, the readership was not 100% male. It is just extremists that espouse such nonsense. The reason the likes of the Starlight series failed is because even 3 year olds could tell they were talking down to the target audience. People will not vote for this poll as it is just a cover for the authors irrational hatred of a (biological, natural, actual) woman author who dares challenge a misogynistic movement forced on women by a disproportionately loud group of supposed men with small penises and rubbish drag queens who are desperate for attention.
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 7, 2021 13:42:24 GMT
People will not vote for this poll as it is just a cover for the authors irrational hatred of a (biological, natural, actual) woman author who dares challenge a misogynistic movement forced on women by a disproportionately loud group of supposed men with small penises and rubbish drag queens who are desperate for attention. This is not true, as I mentioned in an earlier post I did not intend for this poll to take this direction. Either you are right and I am less concerned about gender equality than flame wars or I led this debate poorly, I plead guilty to the latter. While I admit to my original phrasing being questionable, it's more debatable whether or not a poll should include the option 'other' (you seem to be disregarding the second poll I started). You think it should, you try leading a gender debate, given your provocative posts about gender.
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