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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 1:06:46 GMT
You'll have A Skill of 10 so I think theirs no way you won't win, but because you only have 14 Stamina if you're unlucky enough to lose 3 or more rounds your remaining Stamina may be so low that you can't beat the book
Imagine putting a skill 10 monster as your first enemy in a book? And then later on a few skill 6 and even 5 enemies. Honestly, Livingstone never had a clue.
There is one benefit, intentional or not. If you roll a character with no chance whatsoever, you'll probably die against the crab (or the pirates) and can reroll your character without wasting too much time. Admittedly you could just look at your skill 7 character and decide to reroll it because you know it's a lost cause but I'm trying to find some benefit of the doubt here.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 1:11:13 GMT
Imagine putting in a skill 10 monster as your first enemy in a book? And then later on a few skill 6 and even 5 enemies. Honestly, Livingstone never had a clue.
Well, going by his tweets and those of other FF authors Livingstone thought readers would cheat like crazy. It's surprising and disappointing coming from someone who is an experienced RPG player and games designer. I think it was something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. "People will cheat anyway, so I don't have to balance the gameplay" so you make a game that people have to cheat to win at. And then you point at all the cheaters and say "See! I told you we don't need to balance our games!"
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Post by philsadler on Nov 11, 2021 7:47:53 GMT
Imagine putting in a skill 10 monster as your first enemy in a book? And then later on a few skill 6 and even 5 enemies. Honestly, Livingstone never had a clue.
Well, going by his tweets and those of other FF authors Livingstone thought readers would cheat like crazy.
How would a high skill monster stop cheating? If people want to cheat, then that's fine, but what about honest players?
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 8:05:03 GMT
Well, going by his tweets and those of other FF authors Livingstone thought readers would cheat like crazy.
How would a high skill monster stop cheating? If people want to cheat, then that's fine, but what about honest players?
I don't think he was suggesting it stopped cheating, I think it was to justify making the games so hard. He was saying "Since people are going to cheat anyway, who cares how hard it is." As for the honest players, stick to the first 4 books?
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Post by philsadler on Nov 11, 2021 8:13:26 GMT
I honestly think it was just his excuse for never play-testing his books and for not being very good most of the time.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 10:15:48 GMT
Island 12/14/7 The low luck was really annoying, it got down to 2 at one point but since most of the penalties for being unlucky are just taking extra damage, I could use my provisions to get through it. I used every single one of my provisions and thought the cyclops was going to take me down yet again but I muddled through. The black lion put up surprisingly little resistance and with a monkey, a fire sword and a 6 skill advantage, the lizard king never stood a chance. I hope you guys like Scorpion Swamp because I'll be playing it three times.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 10:24:45 GMT
I honestly think it was just his excuse for never play-testing his books and for not being very good most of the time. Okay, absolutely best faith interpretation I can give him: If he assumes players will cheat then he can use the skill and stamina settings as flavour rather than a game mechanic. Why is the black lion skill 11? Because it's badass and its stats should reflect that. Is it fair from a gameplay perspective? No, but since people are cheating that's not a concern. To be clear, I disagree with that attitude. The game in gamebook is there for a reason but I think it makes sense to think of him as seeing a creative opportunity rather than just being lazy... at least for his earlier books.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 11, 2021 11:36:15 GMT
If he assumes players will cheat then he can use the skill and stamina settings as flavour rather than a game mechanic. Why is the black lion skill 11? Because it's badass and its stats should reflect that. He could though have the Black Lion be a tough opponent without making the book unfair by sprinkling plenty of obtainable Attack Strength bonuses throughout the earlier stages of the book.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 11:52:18 GMT
Oh, as games, his books are completely broken. They're definitely better to read than to play.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 12:01:40 GMT
Speaking of completely broken, +2 initial luck just for picking Selator is kind of obscene.
Scorpion - good - 7/14/7 Despite the 2 bonus luck, I still failed every luck roll but one trying to take down the sword trees and so they took me down instead.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 19:59:31 GMT
Scorpion - good - 8/14/7
I had 2 stamina left when I killed the sword trees and no means of healing as I didn't take a stamina spell. So I was a bit worried until the mistress of birds fully healed me. After that, I think my skill changed more than my stamina with it going up and down like a yoyo before finally settling on 6 but since I never got into any more fights, it really didn't make much difference. The berry hunter extraordinaire returned much to Selator's delight.
Now to try again with the patron who has the worst spell options in the game.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 20:05:39 GMT
Scorpion - neutral - 7/14/7 Those blasted sword trees! I can't wait to give them a good withering! I was one hit away from victory when they bested me.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 21:10:39 GMT
Scorpion - neutral - 8/14/7 Despite the increased skill, I actually did WORSE against the sword trees. Next time for sure!
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 21:19:38 GMT
Scorpion - neutral - 9/14/7 This was the turning point, I not only beat the sword trees with ease, I even took down the unicorn unharmed. After that, there was really nothing threatening left and I strolled to victory. I shall add mapmaking to my list of talents!
One more patron to serve and then the swamp has been vanquished!
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 21:35:15 GMT
Scorpion - evil - 7/14/7 I was surprisingly lucky, I rolled a 1 both times I cast curse and the master of spiders didn't hurt me much. Alas, the Master of Wolves was guarded by two of them, the second of which ended my life.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 22:27:05 GMT
Scorpion - evil - 8/14/7 Small progress is still progress. Instead of dying to the second wolf, I died to the master himself. I should hopefully make it next time.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 22:35:17 GMT
Scorpion - evil - 9/14/7 Well, I finally got the magic sword from Grimslade. It's completely useless (my kingdom for a sword that raises attack strength instead of skill) but it's still a nice way to start things off. Sadly, that was where my luck ended. The master of spiders knocked me silly so my stamina spells were burned early and the master of wolves once again brought my adventure to a premature end.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 22:45:50 GMT
Scorpion - evil - 10/14/7 A bad curse roll (5) and a tough fight with the Master of Spiders had me starting on the back foot. Fortunately I rolled a 1 for both the leeches and my second curse spell and finally having the skill advantage over the Master of Wolves, I was able to claim his amulet, report back to Grimmy and get a nice little lecture from Steve 2.
Next up is Caverns of the Snow Witch. I think this one is going to take a while.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 11, 2021 22:49:37 GMT
I imagine you will be doing the 'conventional' way to complete the Grimslade quest (acquire 3 amulets, kill Grimslade on your return) rather than the 'proper' way (acquire 3 amulets, get 1,500 good when you return & leave) or the 'completist' way (acquire 4 amulets)? I also imagine that in the increasingly unlikely event you are defeated by the Goblin Status you will so consider that a fail, and slightly academically might increase skill?
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 11, 2021 22:51:52 GMT
Oh, I'm late. Sounds like you chose the conventional merchant route over the completist berserk route.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 12, 2021 0:01:54 GMT
Had I taken too much damage in the goblin fight, that would indeed have been considered a failed run (and skill would have been boosted). I didn't kill Grimslade because there's not really any reason to do so. He hired me to do a job, I did the job and got paid for it. No bad blood between us.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 12, 2021 9:05:13 GMT
Since no one thinks I'll actually do this with anything approaching minimum stats, I'll put a few of the obvious lost causes in one post.
Caverns - 7/14/7 I didn't expect to win but I expected to have better than luck this. Failed 2 luck tests in a row then got eaten by snow wolves.
Caverns - 8/14/7 Literally the exact same thing. I failed 2 luck tests and got eaten by wolves.
Caverns - 9/14/7 Wow, I actually passed a luck roll! I'd best not get used to this. I downed the wolves, and then got squished by the yeti.
Caverns - 10/14/7 I died yeti again.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 12, 2021 9:16:46 GMT
He hired me to do a job, I did the job and got paid for it. No bad blood between us. Although doesn't he try to rip you off with fake money or something IIRC?
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 12, 2021 9:54:14 GMT
Caverns - 11/14/7 Once I got past the yeti, the whole witch's lair was fairly manageable. The bird man was a tense fight as we were both on 2 stamina when I won the critical attack round. Then I used my stamina potion leaving myself with no more healing. This proved to be fatal as the werewolf wore me down enough that the hill trolls could easily finish me off.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 12, 2021 9:56:38 GMT
He hired me to do a job, I did the job and got paid for it. No bad blood between us. Although doesn't he try to rip you off with fake money or something IIRC? He gives you less than half what he owes unless you force him to pay you upfront. But money first is just common sense if you work as a mercenary so I got my full payment.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 12, 2021 12:20:58 GMT
Caverns - 12/14/7 Yikes, this was stressful. Once again the bird man came down to us both being on 2 stamina and then me winning the final round. This time, however, I had no stamina potion (I went for luck instead this time) so I polished off the last of my provisions and hoped for the best. By the time I beat the hill trolls I had 6 stamina left and after killing the barbarian, I had 4. Then the most nerve wracking die roll in the game. Take 1d6 damage. On 4 stamina. Straight 50/50 shot to live or die and live I did. With 2 stamina to my name, I collapsed on top of Firetop Mountain and received a much needed cure.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 12, 2021 13:17:43 GMT
Caverns - 11/14/7 Once I got past the yeti, the whole witch's lair was fairly manageable. The bird man was a tense fight as we were both on 2 stamina when I won the critical attack round. Then I used my stamina potion leaving myself with no more healing. This proved to be fatal as the werewolf wore me down enough that the hill trolls could easily finish me off. Imo this sort of thing is an example of when a death is at least partly caused by wanting Stamina. If you won't be increasing your Stamina after more than two attempts at Caverns, when will you be? Btw well done for completing Caverns 12 14 7, pretty sure the odds were against you.
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Post by The Count on Nov 12, 2021 19:06:13 GMT
Scorpion - evil - 9/14/7 Well, I finally got the magic sword from Grimslade. It's completely useless (my kingdom for a sword that raises attack strength instead of skill) but it's still a nice way to start things off. Sadly, that was where my luck ended. The master of spiders knocked me silly so my stamina spells were burned early and the master of wolves once again brought my adventure to a premature end. Considering the amount of Skill you can lose very easily in the book, the sword is incredibly useful - especially if you go for at least 3 amulets
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 12, 2021 19:10:07 GMT
Scorpion - evil - 9/14/7 Well, I finally got the magic sword from Grimslade. It's completely useless (my kingdom for a sword that raises attack strength instead of skill) but it's still a nice way to start things off. Sadly, that was where my luck ended. The master of spiders knocked me silly so my stamina spells were burned early and the master of wolves once again brought my adventure to a premature end. Considering the amount of Skill you can lose very easily in the book, the sword is incredibly useful - especially if you go for at least 3 amulets I suppose you're right. you could change weapons at any point and only gain that skill point when you need it. I never actually considered that. Either way, I always had maximum skill when I fought thanks to a skill spell so it didn't alter the outcome.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 12, 2021 19:15:30 GMT
Caverns - 11/14/7 Once I got past the yeti, the whole witch's lair was fairly manageable. The bird man was a tense fight as we were both on 2 stamina when I won the critical attack round. Then I used my stamina potion leaving myself with no more healing. This proved to be fatal as the werewolf wore me down enough that the hill trolls could easily finish me off. Imo this sort of thing is an example of when a death is at least partly caused by wanting Stamina. If you won't be increasing your Stamina after more than two attempts at Caverns, when will you be? Btw well done for completing Caverns 12 14 7, pretty sure the odds were against you. Stamina gets raised if a non-combat stamina loss is what killed me. Given the pit fiend decision back in Deathtrap Dungeon, if a failed skill/luck test does direct damage, I'd take that as a stamina boost. So luck might be the one that gets neglected instead!
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