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Post by jmisbest on Nov 11, 2021 8:50:43 GMT
Some friends of mine that are massive fans of Ian Livingston have had a idea I think is preposterous. Will their idea work?
Their idea is that in order to proof that Ian Livingston isn't the worst FF Author in the world by deliberately writing 6 FF Books that are so bad that the best of the 6 will be as bad as Ian Livingstone's worse
But since their trying to proof that Ian Livingston isn't the worst FF Author in the world by deliberately writing 6 FF Books that are worse then Ian's will their plan work?
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 11, 2021 10:03:52 GMT
There are gamebooks out there that are so bad that even the worst FF books all seem like art by comparison. Ian Livingstone, even at his absolute worst, never wrote a gamebook anything close to as bad as Jon Sutherland and Nigel Gross' Sonic the Hedgehog books for instance. So I'm pretty sure anyone deliberately writing a bad book could easily make it much worse than Ian's worst.
I imagine your friends could find better uses for their time!
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Post by philsadler on Nov 11, 2021 10:14:25 GMT
I advise your friend to read Skyfall (book 1, I don't know about the rest) and if they can stay awake through it, they'll understand that there are some things worse than even the worst FF books (although of course some people will love Skyfall book 1).
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Post by jmisbest on Nov 11, 2021 10:16:26 GMT
There are gamebooks out there that are so bad that even the worst FF books all seem like art by comparison. Ian Livingstone, even at his absolute worst, never wrote a gamebook anything close to as bad as Jon Sutherland and Nigel Gross' Sonic the Hedgehog books for instance. So I'm pretty sure anyone deliberately writing a bad book could easily make it much worse than Ian's worst. I imagine your friends could find better uses for their time! |
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 11, 2021 10:39:02 GMT
I think you're all overlooking the obvious. If the books are so bad, why would Fighting Fantasy buy them? And if they're not published by FF, it makes no difference how bad they are, they can't dethrone anyone as worst FF author.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 11, 2021 10:46:37 GMT
There are gamebooks out there that are so bad that even the worst FF books all seem like art by comparison. Ian Livingstone, even at his absolute worst, never wrote a gamebook anything close to as bad as Jon Sutherland and Nigel Gross' Sonic the Hedgehog books for instance. So I'm pretty sure anyone deliberately writing a bad book could easily make it much worse than Ian's worst. I imagine your friends could find better uses for their time! Oh don't get me wrong - I'm a Sonic fan too and I really rate the James Wallis books in the series highly and think the Marc Gascoigne/Jonathan Green books are also decent (way too hard but this was mid-90s Jonathan Green I guess!). But those Sutherland/Gross books are abysmal! |
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 11, 2021 12:18:01 GMT
A deliberately bad game book will be just be bad whether or not it's taken from a group of 6 or 6 million, and if it's anything like EOTD it'd just make IL look like a bad author. EOTD is a bad book, but it's not the worst gamebook, FF or otherwise. IL has just gone down in people's estimation after writing a number of cash cows when he really has it him to write better stuff, even from a commercial, non-artistic pov. If IL doesn't change he will be remembered as a mediocre FF author (the worst for me might be C. Higson), which is a shame because he can be talented at times.
I really think you should do more productive things than write bad gamebooks to prove a point, even if it's watching telly.
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Post by a moderator on Nov 11, 2021 13:24:24 GMT
There are worse professionally published gamebooks than Ian Livingstone's nadir out there.
There are fan-authored FF adventures worse than the shoddiest of Ian Livingstone's output.
Your 'friends' are trying to disprove something that has already been disproved, and seeking to create material that will make the world objectively more horrible in order to achieve their worthless and unnecessary goal. They must be stopped.
ETA: While it wouldn't really be Ian's fault, if he were to inadvertently inspire the deliberate creation of some of the worst literary atrocities ever to befoul the world of interactive fiction, this would not reflect well on him. Even L-Bastin would think that this plan is a stupid idea.
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Post by dragonwarrior8 on Nov 11, 2021 14:25:32 GMT
Sagas of the Demonspawn is easily the worst gamebook series Ive come across so far. Speaking of writing a bad gamebook on purpose, as I was "finishing" the series, I became convinced that Herbie Brennan was making them terrible on purpose in order to troll gamebook players and make some cash in the process. There is just no way they can be that awful unless it was deliberate.
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Post by pip on Nov 11, 2021 16:44:54 GMT
IMO: There's no way the worst FF author in the world would have come up with a classic like Deathtrap Dungeon. At some point it just feels like he wasn't interested in quality anymore and stopped trying, but he did write quality stuff before then.
Your friends may prove Livingstone is the worst FF author in the world by each writing a book that is better than Deathtrap Dungeon! Make sure to post the books online so we can enjoy them.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 11, 2021 17:11:30 GMT
IMO: There's no way the worst FF author in the world would have come up with a classic like Deathtrap Dungeon. At some point it just feels like he wasn't interested in quality anymore and stopped trying, but he did write quality stuff before then. Your friends may prove Livingstone is the worst FF author in the world by each writing a book that is better than Deathtrap Dungeon! Make sure to post the books online so we can enjoy them. Sadly, it's become easy to forget Livingstone was once quite good; Island Of The Lizard King is also very well-designed and above-average imho. On what planet does choosing the least-worst out of just 6 deliberately (self-written!) bad works prove someone is better than some people's low opinion of him on social media? |
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Post by tyrion on Nov 11, 2021 17:22:45 GMT
Have you any idea how much effort and time it takes to write a gamebook? If you're writing an FF book, that's a minimum of 30,000 words. Even making it deliberately simple (by having single choices, or only two choices that go to the same place), you are still looking at months of writing. I suggest you have a word with your 'friends' and tell them to stop being so puerile.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Nov 11, 2021 19:07:02 GMT
I advise your friend to read Skyfall (book 1, I don't know about the rest) and if they can stay awake through it, they'll understand that there are some things worse than even the worst FF books (although of course some people will love Skyfall book 1). I think with the first book there was a kernal of a very good idea there. It's the solving of the mysterious disappearances of those river barges. And I liked the setting with the remnants of a futuristic technology now lost in a medieval world. But the execution was poor, such as getting utterly lost in the swamp because the structure of the book and the writing was so bad. Incredibly frustrating and confusing. On what planet does choosing the least-worst out of just 6 deliberately (self-written!) bad works prove someone is better than some people's low opinion of him on social media? Charles, Charles, Charles... [sigh] ... you should know by now that by reading and commenting on this thread you have voluntarily crossed over into the Twilight Zone where normal rules of logic simply don't apply. You may as well stop questioning things like this and enjoy the ride. |
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Post by a moderator on Nov 11, 2021 21:27:03 GMT
I advise your friend to read Skyfall (book 1, I don't know about the rest) and if they can stay awake through it, they'll understand that there are some things worse than even the worst FF books (although of course some people will love Skyfall book 1). I think with the first book there was a kernal of a very good idea there. It's the solving of the mysterious disappearances of those river barges. And I liked the setting with the remnants of a futuristic technology now lost in a medieval world. But the execution was poor, such as getting utterly lost in the swamp because the structure of the book and the writing was so bad. Incredibly frustrating and confusing. The second book in the series is the only one that really does anything with the 'remnants of a futuristic technology' aspect, which is a pity, as it was one of the more interesting aspects of the setting. All four of the books have their flaws and their good points, though some are more heavily skewed towards the flawed side. Probably the best one is the third, which includes a decent amount of dry humour. I particularly like the cheat-baiting section: Should you claim to have defeated a near-invincible opponent (which there is absolutely no reason for you to attack in the first place), you get told,
"So, somehow you have managed to score 60 Points of Damage on a creature with an Expertise considerably higher than your own. How remarkable!
In the light of such good fortune, it seems superfluous to reward your success with further Fortune Points." The 'about the author' section indicates that the books are based on D&D adventures the author ran for a group of friends. If the more preposterous of the options made available to the reader at various points were inspired by things that some of his players actually did, that suggests that his friends were almost as peculiar as jmisbest's posts make his friends out to be. |
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Post by dragonwarrior8 on Nov 12, 2021 3:53:22 GMT
I think with the first book there was a kernal of a very good idea there. It's the solving of the mysterious disappearances of those river barges. And I liked the setting with the remnants of a futuristic technology now lost in a medieval world. But the execution was poor, such as getting utterly lost in the swamp because the structure of the book and the writing was so bad. Incredibly frustrating and confusing. The second book in the series is the only one that really does anything with the 'remnants of a futuristic technology' aspect, which is a pity, as it was one of the more interesting aspects of the setting. All four of the books have their flaws and their good points, though some are more heavily skewed towards the flawed side. Probably the best one is the third, which includes a decent amount of dry humour. Definitely agree with the third book being the best. A big reason for this I think is that the movement system from the first two books was greatly scaled back. Moving through the pyramid in book 2 especially was absolutely dire, with being asked every 5 steps if you wanted to turn around or continue the way you were going. Its unfortunate that the series returned to this system for book 4. I remember being particularly annoyed with book 4 because it contained a clue as to how you should navigate the coloured doors, except the clue was given almost at the very end of the adventure when you would have figured it all out by then anyway. |
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Post by a moderator on Nov 12, 2021 13:07:38 GMT
I remember being particularly annoyed with book 4 because it contained a clue as to how you should navigate the coloured doors, except the clue was given almost at the very end of the adventure when you would have figured it all out by then anyway. Well, the clue was given right at the start, but the information that made it possible for the average reader to understand the clue wasn't provided until close to the end. Anyone with a decent knowledge of heraldry could potentially have figured it out without the big hint - though I imagine there wasn't much overlap between gamebook readers and heraldry enthusiasts. FF has gone similarly obscure at times (looking at Andrew Chapman here), but its more esoteric tangents were never as crucial as the door colour code in Skyfall 4. |
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