Making use of provisions

[thealmightymudworm]

So we're all familiar with the problem: you're playing through an FF book – let's say one that simply says you may eat at any time except during combat – and you get badly duffed up in a fight reducing your STAMINA from 20 to 4. You think that there may be some more fights coming up soon and you need to restore your health.

Luckily you have 10 provisions in hand, far more than you need to restore your STAMINA to its initial level, but if your next fight is round the corner how much of that can you really make use of beforehand?

[Wilf]

You've already summed up my approach in the second option. If I can eat them when I'm not in combat, I figure any paragraph that doesn't contain an instruction to roll dice to attack something is an opportunity to feed my face. And despite being a fat greedy bugger in real life, I reckon that my adventuring counterpart probably wouldn't have the belly to snarf down two meals in one go (and he'd have the sense to try and ration them a bit, too), so I limit myself to no more than one meal per paragraph. I'd probably stop scoffing in this instance when I reach a STAMINA of 12, just in case there's an upcoming chance of a STAMINA increase in the text.

[kieran]

Some books (can't think which offhand) do specify you can only eat one provision at a time. Most have no such limitation though so for those books if I'm down to 4 Stamina you better believe I'm going to scoff 3 or 4 chicken legs down my gob in one go (probably followed by a Rennie).

Usually I'll eat just after a combat before turning to the next section. If that section involves a combat, I'll not eat again until that combat has resolved. Some books occasionally limit you here though eg Master of Chaos says you only have time to eat one meal after beating Shanzikuul.

[daredevil123]

Generally, I have no qualms about eating three or four meals at once if necessary - I figure that, if the rules allow it, it's fair game.

Recently, though, I've been feeling a bit guilty about this and try to ration my provisions unless my Stamina is really low and there's a tough fight coming up. This whole debacle is one of the reasons I love Sorcery! - it shows the way eating meals should properly be handled.

[philsadler]

This is why I've always used 'healing potions' in my own books. Although I always makes sure that the character will still get a few options to eat and drink.

[vastariner]

I retcon "provisions" as meaning including things like Huel, so something you don't need to stop to digest, and which have a healing element. Imagine all of them have a soupçon of Bomba juice.

[CharlesX]

I remember being taught back in Primary School (!) that when cavemen ate, they ate their entire meals for the day in one go. My point being, it's just social reasons we eat 4 meals a day, and in a magical, fantastic universe, one shouldn't have to wait before eating another meal (or more). I also reckon it'd make a touch more sense if instead of meals restoring Stamina, they were healing elixirs or something.

[terrysalt]

Mar 21, 2022 10:34:40 GMT kieran said:

Some books (can't think which offhand) do specify you can only eat one provision at a time.

Surely that restriction doesn't actually affect anything though. I need to heal 12 stamina so instead of eating 3 provisions and healing 12, I eat 1, heal 4. I am now no longer eating a provision and may eat a second and gain another 4. With excellent timing, I have now concluded eating my second provision and may proceed to my third.

[CharlesX]

Mar 21, 2022 21:46:46 GMT terrysalt said:

Mar 21, 2022 10:34:40 GMT kieran said:

Some books (can't think which offhand) do specify you can only eat one provision at a time.

Surely that restriction doesn't actually affect anything though. I need to heal 12 stamina so instead of eating 3 provisions and healing 12, I eat 1, heal 4. I am now no longer eating a provision and may eat a second and gain another 4. With excellent timing, I have now concluded eating my second provision and may proceed to my third.

Especially given the book(s) in question can be as hard as any other FF, such an interpretation doesn't seem remotely unreasonable. The only thing "eat one provision at a time" seems to me to affect would be your hero's ability to win a pie-eating contest  .

[The Count]

I went for the 4th option as it depends on my stats, how well I know the book, and if I have other healing options available - for example: in most Keith Martin books, you have to eat provisions at certain points with no benefit, however, you gain more from the copious amounts of alcohol scattered around...

[terrysalt]

I actually don't know how else you could interpret it. What I described is literally eating provisions one at a time. If they meant you can only eat one per reference as in option 2 of the poll, they could have very easily said that.

[kieran]

Mar 21, 2022 21:46:46 GMT terrysalt said:

Mar 21, 2022 10:34:40 GMT kieran said:

Some books (can't think which offhand) do specify you can only eat one provision at a time.

Surely that restriction doesn't actually affect anything though. I need to heal 12 stamina so instead of eating 3 provisions and healing 12, I eat 1, heal 4. I am now no longer eating a provision and may eat a second and gain another 4. With excellent timing, I have now concluded eating my second provision and may proceed to my third.

True. I interpret it to mean that you can't eat 2 in the same section but it is pretty open to interpretation.

[nathanh]

Unless the book or reference specifies otherwise, I eat as much as I like on a given reference. However, I have some convoluted rules about when I am allowed to eat:

• If there is a mandatory combat in a reference, I cannot eat at any point on that reference.
• If there is an optional combat, I cannot eat after making the decision to fight the combat. Further, if the "optional" nature is more like "there is an orc here, if you want to run turn to x, otherwise fight", I cannot eat at all.
• If there is a mandatory STAMINA loss on a reference, I cannot eat until I suffer that loss.
• If there is a mandatory dice roll, and the results of the dice roll move me to a difference reference, I cannot eat on this reference.
• If there is a mandatory dice roll, but the results of the dice roll are all on the current reference, I cannot eat until rolling the dice and suffering any associated consequences.
• If there is an optional dice roll, the above two bullets apply once I've made the decision to roll the dice.

[bloodbeasthandler]

Again we saw early on how this could have been dealt with another way, in the Sorcery series.
A period of rest and recovery plus eating a meal at some point in the day restores stamina.
Add onto this more use of healing potions, or spells, or magical healing items or options to visit the local healer etc, and we'd have an alternative to what most of the books give us: in effect a reserve pool of 40 STAMINA points to be drawn from.

[tyrion]

Apart from sorcery, I think the forced consumption of provisions is handled poorly. Eat now or lose 2 stamina points? I'll take the stamina loss, and then eat, netting me a 2 stamina gain.

[CharlesX]

Mar 22, 2022 21:48:47 GMT tyrion said:

Apart from sorcery, I think the forced consumption of provisions is handled poorly. Eat now or lose 2 stamina points? I'll take the stamina loss, and then eat, netting me a 2 stamina gain.

I've tended to interpret "eat now or lose stamina" as meaning you still gain the 4 stamina from eating the provision (implying foreknowledge of the book and planning ahead might help), when the text doesn't specify you don't do. Often the text states "eat a meal (without gaining the stamina benefit) or lose 4 stamina", and it's normally unlikely I'll be on 4 or less stamina at that point.

[petch]

Agreed, the forced consumption rule more often than not came across as a grey area. I usually interpreted it as if you had provisions, you had to consume one, without any Stamina gain, and only if you didn't have any then you would have to lose the 2 Stamina points (ie you couldn't voluntarily lose the 2 Stamina if you were in possession of at least 1 provision).

As for the use of provisions in general, as it seemed to be within the rules for most of the books, I had no qualms about letting my adventurer scoff a load of meals into his face face at once right before a big encounter.

[nathanh]

I haven't checked every Keith Martin book, but I had Tower of Destruction and Island of the Undead to hand. Both are quite explicit that "you must eat a meal" means you don't get the 4 STAMINA and it is mandatory if you have at least one provision. So the only edge case is when you're down to your last Provision, where you could eat the Provision optionally, get the 4 STAMINA, and then lose 2.

[sylas]

Substitute Healing Potions for provisions for more realism. Steve Jackson was the only one to handle provisions correctly in his Sorcery series.

[Peter]

I take whatever the book allows. It pays to read the instructions carefully, as not all the books are the same. "One at a time" I take to mean one per reference. But sometimes that philosophy becomes inadequate, in situations like "you make camp for the night, then in the morning you continue".

I never eat up to maximum stamina, in case there is a chance to gain a free bonus later, but I try to stay in double figures at least. Obviously, learning from previous attempts makes you more efficient (e.g., knowing when provisions can be replenished, when stamina will be restored to maximum, etc).

I got a rude shock with one of the amateur adventures (I won't spoil by naming it), where I tucked into some food and was told: "if you have already eaten today, you find the food very nutritious - add 3 stamina; but if this is your first meal of the day, it only staves off your hunger pains - add nothing." The opposite of Sorcery, and a wicked trap for first-timers.

[thealmightymudworm]

I'm actually quite surprised with these results in that although I've sometimes resorted to eating three provisions at once, it's always seemed like a disreputable thing to do. It's an odd situation. Ideally most people would presumably want to follow the author's intention. I can't believe that intention was for people to be able to instantaneously scoff triple helpings and get the full benefit. But on the other hand it's totally unclear what the correct interpretation is supposed to be – or even that anyone has seriously thought it through at all.

Sometimes you are given an item which you are told with great fanfare restores 5 or 6 STAMINA points and that you can use it at any time outside of battle. Clearly you're supposed to be thinking something other than "Cool. So that's like a pie and a bit?"

I'm also quite surprised that Wilf's favoured option is so unpopular. That would seem to be the best 'technically correct' solution.

Mar 21, 2022 10:34:40 GMT kieran said:

Some books (can't think which offhand) do specify you can only eat one provision at a time. Most have no such limitation though so for those books if I'm down to 4 Stamina you better believe I'm going to scoff 3 or 4 chicken legs down my gob in one go (probably followed by a Rennie).

Usually I'll eat just after a combat before turning to the next section. If that section involves a combat, I'll not eat again until that combat has resolved. Some books occasionally limit you here though eg Master of Chaos says you only have time to eat one meal after beating Shanzikuul.

Yes and even that feels ridiculous (as I complained on the Immersion Breakers thread).

Mar 21, 2022 22:39:23 GMT terrysalt said:

I actually don't know how else you could interpret it. What I described is literally eating provisions one at a time. If they meant you can only eat one per reference as in option 2 of the poll, they could have very easily said that.

Well they could, but then they could also have said "This sword adds 1 to your Attack Strength" rather than "This sword adds 1 to your SKILL, and this bonus applies even if it exceeds your initial SKILL, but only in combat situations."

[terrysalt]

If only they'd been that precise! Usually they just say add 1 to your skill with zero consideration of the actual implementation of that instruction based on the rules.

But based on the rules as written, I don't see any prohibition against eating 3 meals in quick succession. You just can't eat them all simultaneously which is a fairly meaningless distinction.

[bloodbeasthandler]

Apr 12, 2022 4:49:39 GMT thealmightymudworm said:

I'm actually quite surprised with these results in that although I've sometimes resorted to eating three provisions at once, it's always seemed like a disreputable thing to do. It's an odd situation. Ideally most people would presumably want to follow the author's intention. I can't believe that intention was for people to be able to instantaneously scoff triple helpings and get the full benefit.

After a particularly wounding fight or having suffered a lot of injury from an accident see this as resting up, recuperating, stitching wounds?
After all, no-one in their right mind would go staggering on with the 'real world' equivalent of 3 stamina points unless they really had to.

But I do agree. Eating three roast dinners after getting clubbed half to death by an ogre and then being right as rain immediately afterwards is an immersion-breaker, but that's where we are. 

So it's up to the authors of the books to deal with this and either work around the rules or change them. If you don't want your characters eating several dinners while crossing a tightrope over a chasm, or in between two successive fights that in reality happen within seconds of each other, then you'll have to limit when and where provisions might be eaten. 

[Peter]

Apr 12, 2022 8:09:16 GMT bloodbeasthandler said:

So it's up to the authors of the books to deal with this and either work around the rules or change them. If you don't want your characters eating several dinners while crossing a tightrope over a chasm, or in between two successive fights that in reality happen within seconds of each other, then you'll have to limit when and where provisions might be eaten. 

I think this was the authors' original intention - that there are "pit stops" where you can replenish lost stamina. But after the first book they decided they could reduce the difficulty of balancing a gamebook by removing this stat-management aspect from their planning, and just say "you can eat any time, but not when it would be unrealistic" (which meant, in game terms, during actual battle).

I think I prefer to have the limitation, as it has the potential to make the adventure more nerve-wracking and increase tension.

[kieran]

I wonder is this why Ian got rid of Provisions entirely in his later Puffin books. In theory if you could design your books well enough, the player shouldn't have to manage their own healing with Provisions. Not that Ian's later Puffin books really succeeded in this aspect which could be why he brought them back for Eye, Port and Assassins.

The Crimson Tide is a bit odd regarding Provisions. You can keep your initial 2 provisions with you for several years then eat them and they're still fresh enough to restore 4 Stamina points.

[terrysalt]

I kind of wish that they did keep that only when specifically instructed rule. Assuming they didn't pull a Wizard and say you can only eat when instructed and then never actually give you that instruction.

[CharlesX]

Apr 14, 2022 10:24:22 GMT kieran said:

I wonder is this why Ian got rid of Provisions entirely in his later Puffin books. In theory if you could design your books well enough, the player shouldn't have to manage their own healing with Provisions after all. Not that Ian's later Puffin books really succeeded in this aspect which could be why he brought them back for Eye, Port and Assassins.

The Crimson Tide is a bit odd regarding Provisions. You can keep your initial 2 provisions with you for several years then eat them and they're still fresh enough to restore 4 Stamina points.

They must be elf provisions (even though there are no elves, dwarves, goblins orcs and Trolls in Crimson Tide).
   I always hated Livingstone's Caverns of the Show Witch for not granting you provisions, or at least enough opportunities to replenish your Stamina, because a potion isn't enough. Any Avatar with below-average Stamina and a Skill of less than 12 doesn't have a realistic chance of winning Caverns.

[kieran]

Apr 14, 2022 11:14:21 GMT CharlesX said:

I always hated Livingstone's Caverns of the Show Witch for not granting you provisions, or at least enough opportunities to replenish your Stamina, because a potion isn't enough.

The edition I have (Wizard) gives you provisions - though Redswift and Stubb help themselves to them!

[CharlesX]

Apr 14, 2022 12:47:37 GMT kieran said:

Apr 14, 2022 11:14:21 GMT CharlesX said:

I always hated Livingstone's Caverns of the Show Witch for not granting you provisions, or at least enough opportunities to replenish your Stamina, because a potion isn't enough.

The edition I have (Wizard) gives you provisions - though Redswift and Stubb help themselves to them!

From Titannica I believe you are given provisions in most editions of Caverns, but death via gradual Stamina loss (as opposed to death from combat) was very often a big issue in Caverns, even despite that.

[nathanh]

It is intriguing that Livingstone decided to remove Provisions from his books, given that his early adventures were good at whittling down your supply over the course of the adventure. By accident or design, he was relatively good at balancing STAMINA loss to recovery supply. Then decided to remove the recovery without changing the loss...