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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Apr 2, 2022 9:21:07 GMT
A list drawn up by me, the points to be added to, disagreed with, or amplified as you see fit...
(1) Settings, by which I mean the worlds, are well-thought out and extensive. Magnamund was based on his own D and D campaign and Freeway Warrior based on a trip he made through the USA.
(2) Books tend to be more linear, certainly compared to FF. The storyline is given primacy.
(3) Books are linked. LW 1-32, Freeway Warrior 1-4, Grey Star 1-4. (and the Combat Heroes books come in pairs)
(4) Character choice and character progression: skills and equipment enable the reader to mould their character, for example in Lone Wolf you might focus on combat skills, or psychic skills, with offensive or defensive capabilities. In Freeway warrior you might do better at driving or stealth or shooting.
(5) Lots of allies and companions throughout. Some longer lived than others. Characters appear and reappear. Or die.
(6) Many original monsters, creatures of his own devising and naming. No use of words like ‘orcs’, no ‘goblins’,. Yes, many of the monsters have similarities to creatures from other fiction (Helghast as Nazghul, Giaks similar to orcs and goblins perhaps) but they’ll not be 100% copies of other people’s creations. We do see lots of completely original creatures.
(7) Consistency in illustrations [internal] firstly all Gary Chalk, then all Brian Williams. And for World of LW (Grey Star) it's all Paul Bonner I think?
(8) (connected to point 1) Varied settings covering the world. Northern European more likely Britain (LW 1 LW 2)... Arctic (LW3)... the deserts of the Near East/Middle East (LW5) ... LW6 Kingdoms of Terror feels like continental medieval Europe. There are swamplands and jungles (LW8) ... adventures in the ‘multiverse’ LW 11, polluted wasteland in LW12.
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CharlesX
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 2, 2022 10:08:04 GMT
You sound like a fan (and JD is a good writer), on the criticism side, his works have many of the same difficulty curve problems present in FF (too hard or too easy), he's been known to play tricks by making very, very strong enemy fights mandatory if you've got a good power-up from a few books back. I like his Lone Wolf series, but his Freeway Warrior series seemed to me to emphasise random-rolling over description.
I guess it's inevitable if you've got a system based on random-rolling you'll get people who think you've got the difficulty level wrong.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Apr 2, 2022 12:54:19 GMT
You sound like a fan (and JD is a good writer), Indeed i am.  .. his works have many of the same difficulty curve problems present in FF (too hard or too easy) Some of this stems from that initial COMBAT SKILL stat being anywhere from 10 to 19. Similar to FF in a way. Also there's the problem of creating a balance when a character playing book 12 could be doing so with a character who has done all the previous books, compared with one which has completed none. he's been known to play tricks by making very, very strong enemy fights mandatory if you've got a good power-up from a few books back. Fighting the Chaos Master [so soon after fighting the arch-villains], and the Zakhan Kimah spring to mind here. Can you think of others? Nothing that a simple reprint and nerfing of stats couldn't sort out? .. his Freeway Warrior series seemed to me to emphasise random-rolling over description. I've now promised myself that the next set of fiction I read is going to be these books. It's been a long time since I last read and played them and I am sure i was a massive cheat and dice-roll-fudger in those days. |
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Post by dragonwarrior8 on Apr 2, 2022 18:15:22 GMT
.. his works have many of the same difficulty curve problems present in FF (too hard or too easy) Some of this stems from that initial COMBAT SKILL stat being anywhere from 10 to 19. Similar to FF in a way. Also there's the problem of creating a balance when a character playing book 12 could be doing so with a character who has done all the previous books, compared with one which has completed none. I think encouraging people to jump in at any point in the series was probably a mistake. That works for an anthology series like FF, but not in an ongoing story where you can also carry your character forward. I can understand why they did it of course (to sell more books), but you wouldn't jump into any other book series halfway through, or at the end, and expect it to make sense. This seems to indicate that publishers viewed these much more as games than as books. |
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CharlesX
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 2, 2022 18:50:03 GMT
Some of this stems from that initial COMBAT SKILL stat being anywhere from 10 to 19. Similar to FF in a way. Also there's the problem of creating a balance when a character playing book 12 could be doing so with a character who has done all the previous books, compared with one which has completed none. I think encouraging people to jump in at any point in the series was probably a mistake. That works for an anthology series like FF, but not in an ongoing story where you can also carry your character forward. I can understand why they did it of course (to sell more books), but you wouldn't jump into any other book series halfway through, or at the end, and expect it to make sense. This seems to indicate that publishers viewed these much more as games than as books. I think our (my and bloodbeasthandler's) point about difficulty was an understatement, with respect to your point. I've tried jumping into some of the later Lone Wolf's and they are mission impossible that way, even with maxed out Combat Skill and Endurance and clever choice of circles\disciplines\skills (haven't played Lone Wolf for many years and don't have a copy). As I wrote earlier JD kinda overcompensates by sometimes having tough fights for those who have carried over a big thing, IIRC in one of the earlier ones if you don't have the Sommerswerd you have to fight a grossly overpowered monster comparable to an FF Pit Fiend or Gargantis, and if you actually have one you have to face an even worse monster (worse, that is, after allowing for your powerful weapon). Because the Sommerswerd makes other Lone Wolf's a cakewalk. |
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Apr 2, 2022 22:42:31 GMT
One interesting trait some of his Lone Wolf books have is they can go in unexpected tangents if you don't take the obvious action. Book 1 has a fairly detailed sequence of exploring Holmgard if you refuse to do the obvious thing and allow the officer to take you to the king. Book 3 has a really detailed exploration of Vonatar's lab if you walk past a certain door. Skipping the archery contest in Book 6 opens up some other areas to explore that you miss otherwise. Annoying the rebels in Book 10 sees you crossing the Isle of Ghosts to reach Torgar |
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Apr 3, 2022 7:53:21 GMT
Am reading Freeway Warrior as I said I would and found another trait.
(9) A given book will often contain a puzzle, whether it be a number series, magic square or a riddle.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Apr 3, 2022 8:20:55 GMT
Some of this stems from that initial COMBAT SKILL stat being anywhere from 10 to 19. Similar to FF in a way. Also there's the problem of creating a balance when a character playing book 12 could be doing so with a character who has done all the previous books, compared with one which has completed none. I think encouraging people to jump in at any point in the series was probably a mistake. That works for an anthology series like FF, but not in an ongoing story where you can also carry your character forward. I can understand why they did it of course (to sell more books), but you wouldn't jump into any other book series halfway through, or at the end, and expect it to make sense. This seems to indicate that publishers viewed these much more as games than as books. I'm not sure about your last sentence but I'd say you were broadly right otherwise. A bookseller (or even an author) would never put 'Do not buy this book until you have read the previous ones' if they can possibly help it. But what a numbered and continuous series like LW does do is encourage the reader to buy those earlier books. If a casual reader picked up book 6, say, and didn't much care for it, then that's fine - the seller has still made a sale. But if the reader did like it... then it's highly likely books 1-5 are going to get bought at some point. It's a hook. Edit: Another good thing from author's point of view - it means their back-catalogue needs to be in constant print or availability. but you wouldn't jump into any other book series halfway through, or at the end, and expect it to make sense. Indeed. But to give Joe D his due, he always did his best to make sure his introductions or 'story so far' sections at the beginning of the books brought one of those 'new readers' up to speed as much as possible. This seems to indicate that publishers viewed these much more as games than as books. As for publishers viewing them more as games... I reckon they just let Joe Dever crack on with his books. Whatever he was doing, worked. They were selling. I'd be surprised if the head honchos and decision-makers even read the books. |
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Post by Peter on Apr 3, 2022 9:42:59 GMT
I would add: a desire to totally immerse the reader in the world. The writing style makes you feel as if you are there - places and settings are described in words that the characters themselves would use. I have to admit that my first thoughts were that it was heavily cliched and tiresome. But I quickly grew to appreciate the atmosphere he was trying to create and realised I really liked reading it.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Apr 3, 2022 13:22:20 GMT
Taking Peter's observations as number (10)... I've got a couple of others.
(11) Use of paragraphing as punctuation or for dramatic effect, breaking up the prose where there are natural pauses or to create cliffhangers. For example from Shadow on the Sand... Having fought an undead agent of the darklords (a Vordak) whilst flying a giant bird [Itikar]... the paragraph ends with...
...Sheathing your sword you grab the reins and fight to control your injured mount. You have slain the Vordak but the battle is not yet won. The Itikar is losing a lot of blood; it could become unconscious at any moment and drop like a stone.
Suddenly you spot something in the distance . It is a sight that renews your faith in miracles.
Turn to 221.
(12) Tying in with the other thread... includes rules on encumbrance and maximum numbers of items to be carried. Especially apparent in the Freeway Warrior books where it directly affects your STEALTH stat.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Apr 4, 2022 17:52:54 GMT
I would add: a desire to totally immerse the reader in the world. The writing style makes you feel as if you are there - places and settings are described in words that the characters themselves would use. I have to admit that my first thoughts were that it was heavily cliched and tiresome. But I quickly grew to appreciate the atmosphere he was trying to create and realised I really liked reading it. and (and JD is a good writer) He does give his NPCs motivations and a bit of character (sometimes even those that only appear for a little while in the book). Having read Highway Holocaust a couple of days ago I can give a few examples i noticed... The arch antagonist Michigan is obsessed with waging a vendetta against you for killing his brother and stealing away Kate Norton. And as an example of very minor characters, the leader of the Kickers Clan makes use of you to get rid of one of his potential rivals in a violent rite of passage induction into the gang, and some radiation victims who, having seen the dogs they set on you shot down, don't really care if you kill them or not... knowing full well they've only got a lingering death to look forward to sooner or later. These sorts of characterisations are nice touches. Also thought of another trait: (13) Armies on the march. A lot of the gamebooks involve military campaigns which you are either directly involved in or which are happening nearby or in the background, reflecting Joe Dever's interest in wargames and history no doubt. |
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aggsol
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Post by aggsol on Apr 9, 2022 9:14:22 GMT
In contrast to FF if two people would meet and talk about their impressions of any book, they likely have different ones. I never met Banedon in the first books. Years later I learned that you can meet him in book 1. My impression of the first 5 books is really influenced by that. If you met Banedon on your first go it would be different.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Apr 12, 2022 11:21:36 GMT
The article below, written by Joe Dever himself in 1990 about how he constructs his books, can tell us about how and why his books are as they are. And also might be of interest generally.
WRITING SOLO ADVENTURES by Joe Dever
Practical guidelines for the creation and production of solo role-playing
adventures.
First of all, establish a setting or “game world” for your adventure (in
the case of Lone Wolf, this setting is the world of Magnamund).
Next, if you are feeling really adventurous and plan on writing more than
one adventure set in the same location, I advise that you think carefully
about the saga, or ‘bigger story’, which will evolve and be told over the
course of however many books you plan on writing. Each gamebook will then
become an episode of this saga.
2. Determine the objective of each episode i.e. the adventure’s quest.
3. Create a map of the area in which the adventure takes place. If the quest
involves a journey, this map will help you generate events and encounters
en route.
4. Determine how many entries you’re going to have per book. In the Lone Wolf
books, I usually stick to 350 entries. If you use a word processor, create
a page template with a tab for a page number at top centre. Next, you’ll
need to create what I call a ‘master file’. This is laborious at first,
but it will save you time in the long run, especially if you plan to write
more than one book..
Call up your page template. Type in a ‘1’ at the top centre tab, and save
the file as ‘1’. Now change the ‘1’ for a ‘2’ and save the file as ‘2’. If
you plan on having 350 entries, you’ll need to do this 350 times, titling
the pages 1-350. When complete (probably about 2 hours later!), save these 350
files to disc, or discs, and label this as your gamebook master file. Don’t
forget to make a back-up!
Now, call up a directory of your disc(s) and print it out. You now have a
listing of all your 350 file numbers.
If you do not use a word processor, draw a grid on a sheet of A4 lined
paper so that you have ten boxes across by 35 boxes down. Now, insert the
numbers 1–350 into this grid, working across so that 1-10 is on the top
line, 11–20 second line, and so on. When complete, make a few photocopies.
Either way, you now have a hard copy master file which forms the basis of your
solo adventure construction.
5. Next comes the plot outline.
Say, for example, you’ve decided that the reader must go from city ‘A’ to city
‘B’. At city ‘B’ he/she must search for and find Item ‘X’. Having found this
item, he/she must take it to city ‘C’ by a certain time/date. This is the
basic plot outline for your book.
Now, allocate a number of entries to each stage of this plot outline, e.g.:
City A to B: 100 entries
Search City B: 50 entries
Find Item X: 25 entries
Leave City B: 25 entries
City B to City C: 150 entries
_____
350 entries
6. Next comes the detailed plot outlines (or what I call ‘Day-schedules’).
Take each part of the plot outline and work on it to produce a list of
events and encounters that could happen during that particular phase of
the story. Example:
City A to B: 100 entries
----------------------------
Leave City A – two routes to B are possible.
Route 1: Journey via river (allocate 25 entries)
Route 2: Journey via road (allocate 25 entries)
These two routes come together at a point halfway to City B. I call these
points where the story comes together ‘rallying points’.
At this rallying point you could have an encounter with a character who gives
the player clues as to the whereabouts of Item X within City B. Alternatively,
you could throw in a red herring, or an adversary who tries to thwart the
player at this stage of the game.
After the rallying point, the journey could continue by, say, coach to City B
(50 entries).
During this phase of construction, try to make a note of all the possible
events and encounters the player could be having. This will have the effect of
stocking your sub-conscious mind, preparing you so that when you come to write
each of the individual sections, you’ll find it easier to visualize what is
happening to the reader and where the story is going.
7. Having completed your day-schedules for each part of the story, the next
process is Flowcharting.
Flowcharting is the guts of a solo gamebook. It enables you to visualize and
summarize exactly what will happen in each entry. It also helps you to balance
the game-play (scoring, items found etc.) and make sure that technically the
entries link together correctly.
The way I flowchart is as follows:
Take an A4 lined refill pad. Write ‘1’ at the centre top of the page and draw
a small box around it. Now list in note form, everything you need to say in
Entry no. l.
Going back to our hypothetical plot, the entry 1 flowchart could look
something like this:
1
Preparation for quest
Guide takes player to city gate
At gatehouse, offers warning
about bandits on road to City B
Player says farewell to guide
Offer 2 choices:
Road River
---- -----
235 147
Having completed the flowchart for entry 1, tick off ‘1’ on either your disc
directory listing (if you are using a word processor), or your 350 master file
(if you’re not). Above, you’ll see I’ve allocated two new numbers (235/147) as
the ‘go to’ numbers from entry ‘1’. As soon as you allocate a new number in
this way, tick it off your list. This will prevent you from allocating the
same number twice.
Now, choose which of the two routes you want to develop first, road or river,
and repeat the process. Say you wanted to develop the road route first, which
in the day-scheduling you’ve already set aside 25 entries for, you’d write
‘235’ a little further down the pad, perhaps to the left so that later you’ve
room to start the river route (147) off alongside it, draw a line around it,
then link it to ‘1’ to develop the flowchart in this direction.
Now, in note form, list everything that you envisage happening to the reader
in entry 235, the start of the road journey.
The flowchart will automatically branch out as you offer the reader more and
more choices of action, and you can control this branching by every now and
then bringing the story back to a ‘rallying point’ through which the reader
will always pass no matter how many times he/she reads the adventure.
I find it best to flowchart approximately 20 entries at one sitting, then
actually write-up these 20 before progressing to the next part of the story.
You may find it better to flowchart the entire book, then, once it’s mapped
out, start at ‘1’ and methodically write the thing, say at a daily rate of 15
completed entries per day. This is a matter of personal preference.
Given the way the book is constructed, you’ll note that only when it is
finally completed do you shuffle all the pages into the correct order.
8. In order to generate choices at the end of each entry, you’ll need to think
about a game structure, ideally one that actively generates decision-making.
In the Lone Wolf books, the inclusion of Kai Disciplines automatically
generates the opportunity for choices. Do you have the Kai discipline of
Tracking? If you do, turn to ---, if you don’t, turn to ---. Think about
this aspect of your game rules very carefully.
9. Remember to reward the player. Hopefully, your descriptions will keep them
entertained, but they must also feel that they’re achieving something. I
award Kai Rank advancements and improved basic disciplines. Think about
how you could adopt and adapt a similar reward-system. A good gamebook writer
is one who always informs, rewards, and entertains the reader.
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