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Post by misomiso on Aug 6, 2022 14:34:38 GMT
...so what do you write...?!
Want kind of book is it? Is it open world? Do you have any special rules?!
I will go first:
'Test of the Mage' Synopsis: A young apprentice prodigal mage must pass a series of tests in order to become a wizard...but failure will mean death!
Structure: Linear gamebook similar to Sorcery! series
Extra Rules: Spells - the hero can pick several spells at the beginning that they can use throughout the book Influences: 'The Books of Magic' by Neil Gaiman, Deathtrap dungeon, Midnight Rogue
Now you go...
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 6, 2022 15:52:50 GMT
Haha This reminds me of my attempts at amateur FF and D&D growing up. Paradoxically and ironically my best was a simplistic dungeon crawl with Orcs I tried on my Hungarian mate - successful because it was unpretentious.
I'd like an FF where you are a Neutral Druid - one able to cast spells - maybe trying to stop Evil from becoming too powerful. You could have a Karma meter with consequences if it goes heavily one way or the other, like the Star Wars games. This could be a single gamebook or more ambitiously even a sandbox-style series.
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Post by Wilf on Aug 6, 2022 17:01:42 GMT
I'd do a Who Killed Lord Azzur? story, in which YOU have to investigate the murder of Port Blacksand's ruler, looking for clues all over the city whilst being hunted down by the murderer's henchmen. Obviously it would be someone prominent and very powerful to have committed that crime; there will be half a dozen suspects, and clues which would rule them out will need to be discovered. Suspects might be lawful, neutral, or chaotic (I'm definitely including Nicodemus among them). It would have to culminate in an almighty Agatha-Christie-style reveal at the end, and you'd need to be prepared for whatever reprisals the culprit might enact when you expose him or her.
The gamebook format seems ideal for a whodunnit, and I'm genuinely surprised FF has never gone down that route... yet.
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Post by philsadler on Aug 6, 2022 18:09:04 GMT
Wasn't there a Lone Wolf where you had to guess the culprit? Pretty sure it was one of the early ones, perhaps even the first?
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 6, 2022 18:31:11 GMT
I'd do a Who Killed Lord Azzur? story, in which YOU have to investigate the murder of Port Blacksand's ruler, looking for clues all over the city whilst being hunted down by the murderer's henchmen. Obviously it would be someone prominent and very powerful to have committed that crime; there will be half a dozen suspects, and clues which would rule them out will need to be discovered. Suspects might be lawful, neutral, or chaotic (I'm definitely including Nicodemus among them). It would have to culminate in an almighty Agatha-Christie-style reveal at the end, and you'd need to be prepared for whatever reprisals the culprit might enact when you expose him or her. The gamebook format seems ideal for a whodunnit, and I'm genuinely surprised FF has never gone down that route... yet. The gamebook format is ideal if its without dice-rolling and stats, in CYOA Who Killed Harlowe Thrombey was one of their best even though Edward Packard wasn't the best at executing it (usual CYOA cliches). With FF though people feel cheated when they play one that is either very, very easy or requires no dice-rolling, and I think after the first couple of playthroughs when it becomes clear who the culprit is it might become less enjoyable. There are ways around this - the whodunnit could be a part of the gamebook instead of the whole, there could be a choice made to sacrifice and swap consistency for playability (that is, down another route a different killer could be revealed even though it's actually factually inconsistent), 'there is more to it than it at first seems' which was the plot of most Murder She Wrote. JK's ridiculously successful works are murder mysteries as we know. |
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Aug 6, 2022 18:54:02 GMT
Wasn't there a Lone Wolf where you had to guess the culprit? Pretty sure it was one of the early ones, perhaps even the first? The second one. Oddly, it doesn't even matter if you get it right. From a pure gameplay perspective, you're actually better going for one of the innocent suspects. |
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Post by tyrion on Aug 6, 2022 19:01:49 GMT
A village has been targeted by a witch and is living under a curse. You must track the witch to her lair.
You have been stranded in the desert and must explore ancient temples, archaeological sites and a trap filled pyramid to return home.
A town is being threatened by undead that rise every night to attack the townsfolk. Not only must you stop this happening, but also discover who is responsible.
In an open world setting, like fabled lands (so using codewords and tick boxes), the balance of power teeters on a knife edge. You can either restore law and order or join the powers of darkness to bring down the new upstart baron.
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 6, 2022 19:06:22 GMT
A town is being threatened by undead that rise every night to attack the townsfolk. Not only must you stop this happening, but also discover who is responsible. This one sounds slightly like the video game The Keys To Maramon. |
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Post by Wilf on Aug 6, 2022 19:09:00 GMT
I'd do a Who Killed Lord Azzur? story, in which YOU have to investigate the murder of Port Blacksand's ruler, looking for clues all over the city whilst being hunted down by the murderer's henchmen. Obviously it would be someone prominent and very powerful to have committed that crime; there will be half a dozen suspects, and clues which would rule them out will need to be discovered. Suspects might be lawful, neutral, or chaotic (I'm definitely including Nicodemus among them). It would have to culminate in an almighty Agatha-Christie-style reveal at the end, and you'd need to be prepared for whatever reprisals the culprit might enact when you expose him or her. The gamebook format seems ideal for a whodunnit, and I'm genuinely surprised FF has never gone down that route... yet. The gamebook format is ideal if its without dice-rolling and stats, in CYOA Who Killed Harlowe Thrombey was one of their best even though Edward Packard wasn't the best at executing it (usual CYOA cliches). With FF though people feel cheated when they play one that is either very, very easy or requires no dice-rolling, and I think after the first couple of playthroughs when it becomes clear who the culprit is it might become less enjoyable. There are ways around this - the whodunnit could be a part of the gamebook instead of the whole, there could be a choice made to sacrifice and swap consistency for playability (that is, down another route a different killer could be revealed even though it's actually factually inconsistent), 'there is more to it than it at first seems' which was the plot of most Murder She Wrote. JK's ridiculously successful works are murder mysteries as we know. I think if you're a) being hunted by henchmen and b) poking about in Port Blacksand, you're going to get into enough fights to justify the first F in FF. And there'll certainly be an opportunity for a combat at the end! As for replayability, it's all about finding the clues which lead to the conclusion - in much the same way that looking for all the gold rings in Trial Of Champions, or encountering all the assassins in Assassins Of Allansia, make those books replayable. Hide them well; give them to interesting characters; make the story as much about the journey as the ending... don't just have the ending be the reveal of the culprit, but about the proof you've acquired which needs to be sufficient to skewer them. Use codewords with numbers each time you find a clue (or maybe a red herring) to reduce cheating - in order to accuse a particular person, you need to add up the numbers for all the clues that point to them. The story isn't just about the ending - it's about the investigation. And the many ways you could be led astray and accuse the wrong person - how could you have jumped to the conclusion it was her instead of him? Better re-read it and make different choices... |
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Post by Wilf on Aug 6, 2022 19:10:34 GMT
A town is being threatened by undead that rise every night to attack the townsfolk. Not only must you stop this happening, but also discover who is responsible. This one sounds slightly like the video game The Key To Maramon. Or Beneath Nightmare Castle. |
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Post by tyrion on Aug 6, 2022 19:18:32 GMT
This one sounds slightly like the video game The Key To Maramon. Or Beneath Nightmare Castle. You could find out by downloading it for free here link. Sorry for the shameless self promotion! |
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Post by nathanh on Aug 6, 2022 19:36:36 GMT
I sketched out a gamebook once which was about a heist to steal the riches of a local crime lord. In the first part of the quest, you gathered information and useful items and magic. In the middle part of the quest, you broke into his mansion and tried to steal his treasure. In this section it is inevitable that you are captured (unless you die by other means) even if you succeed in the heist, but the different routes have you lose different amounts of STAMINA in the process, with the true route where you successfully steal his wealth the only route which lets you have enough STAMINA to survive the final part. In the final part, the crime lord throws you in a pit to be eaten by his pet Giant Spider. This would be played out as a text combat like the fight against the Cyclops in Seas of Blood, but would have a narrow path to success. This contrivance allows me to have a bunch of failures throughout the middle portion of the quest that still give the players chance to learn valuable information about the finale.
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Post by vastariner on Aug 6, 2022 21:55:33 GMT
I'd set one in Brice, as a young recruit on the military fast track. And there would be another stat of "awareness" vel sim through which you could decide whether to seek asylum elsewhere if you thought the military abuses went too far.
Or, I'd look to non-world-saving quests. Like to learn a unique spell. Allansia should have been destroyed about three dozen times by now.
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Post by paperexplorer on Aug 6, 2022 22:10:58 GMT
I had an idea a while back about a city struck down by an unnatural plague. The adventurer would need to cross a desert first, then explore the town for clues on who or what is behind the plague before a short dungeon to confront the plaguemaster. Desert would be pretty linear (like Temple of Terror), but the town more open like Master of Chaos or Bloodbones. New rules would be water (crossing the Desert section) and exposure (how long the player can go before succumbing to the plague, putting a limit on city exploration)
I think my title was something like Plague of the Damned
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Post by terrysalt on Aug 7, 2022 5:44:42 GMT
I'd write Bleature of Blavoc. 100% original. Do not steal.
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Post by vastariner on Aug 7, 2022 8:58:28 GMT
Allansia should have been destroyed about three dozen times by now. Bloody hell, that's the obvious one, isn't it? A previous adventurer has failed and it is up to you to restore the good/evil balance in Allansia. That would be a Sorcery! epic as you have to pass the underground recruitment tests and get trained up in magic by the gods, and do whatever is necessary to get good back into the world, with the temptations of evil taking you down. Balanced by the necessity of doing evil acts (like assassination) to get back on track.
Could even be multiple routes to success; mass rebellion from the downtrodden masses, subtly taking out a Demon Prince, causing conflict between Demon Princes as per, using the Animal Court, maybe some sort of mass magic with allies in an arrow alignment...
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Post by nathanh on Aug 7, 2022 12:31:36 GMT
Do one where all the Allansia villains have won simultaneously, and it's your job to find the McGuffin that can kill one of them, then manipulate the result of the battle royale they are having so that the one you can kill is the last one standing. Have say 5 villains you can kill, 5 villains you can make the winner, but only 2 that intersect.
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 7, 2022 15:47:36 GMT
Or, I'd look to non-world-saving quests. Like to learn a unique spell. Allansia should have been destroyed about three dozen times by now. On this point, many of my favourite FF are these more D & D quests were you are taking on mid-grade bad guys, being a bounty hunter, picking up treasure and so on. There are reasons why this works well in the FF format - 400 references or thereabouts is perhaps not enough to brilliantly tell an epic tale, there is something unreal about an adventurer getting +5 attack strength bonuses or whatever it takes to take on Razaak's brother, and it doesn't leave enough space for side-quests which develop the tone and scope. While I wouldn't put Keep Of The Lich-Lord in my top 5 FF or top 10, its side-quests and writing give it character and sophistication. |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Aug 8, 2022 3:54:03 GMT
Do one where all the Allansia villains have won simultaneously, and it's your job to find the McGuffin that can kill one of them, then manipulate the result of the battle royale they are having so that the one you can kill is the last one standing. Have say 5 villains you can kill, 5 villains you can make the winner, but only 2 that intersect. I really like this idea, but with Charles X's caveat, that if you're going for 'epic', 400 paragraphs can seem a little skimpy, in the same way that nu Doctor Who's habit of trying to do it under an hour often felt a bit limp. I think 'save the world' plots are based on laziness. The writer assumes that you'll give a toss, because it's the world, right? But surely the tension in a story comes from the reader/viewer caring about something, and caring for an interesting character is more specific and personal than a generalised 'Oh, the world's going to end'. The end of the world is especially lacking in tension when it's a fantasy world, and the jeopardy is entirely false because the reader knows that if they fail at the story, it doesn't mean the cessation of the series. Having said that, I really wish I'd managed to put a death paragraph in a book that read 'Thanks to your foolhardy actions, the entire world of Titan has been sucked into an abyss of unimaginable horror. You are hereby forbidden to ever play another Fighting Fantasy gamebook!' |
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Post by misomiso on Aug 8, 2022 6:22:03 GMT
Eh I like save the world style stories. They give you that epic feeling, particularly if the Villain is a classic Evil Wizard.
Having said that Moonrunner is one of the best imo.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Aug 8, 2022 10:15:37 GMT
I think 'save the world' plots are based on laziness. I don't think that is necessarily the case in all instances though. If you look at something like Night Dragon, the villain is meant to be awe-inspiring, something even other dragons are terrified of. Making it a global threat adds to that feeling of awe. |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Aug 8, 2022 10:40:16 GMT
I think 'save the world' plots are based on laziness. I don't think that is necessarily the case in all instances though. If you look at something like Night Dragon, the villain is meant to be awe-inspiring, something even other dragons are terrified of. Making it a global threat adds to that feeling of awe. I'm not saying that there isn't a place for save the world plots. I'm just saying that too often they are used as a lazy device to raise the stakes in a story. For a writer, it is supremely easy to write about an evil wizard whose schemes threaten the world, nay! the whole universe, nay! the entire multiverse! The problem with this is that if it happens all the time, it becomes a bit ho-hum. The more it's used, the less a reader is actually going to care. As Charles X perspicaciously pointed out, for it to feel epic (as a world-threatening story should be), it needs to be in more of an epic format. |
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Post by misomiso on Aug 8, 2022 15:00:21 GMT
@sleephyscholar
IMO some of the best FF 'save the world' stories are the ones where it is 'implied' that the world is at stake rather than explicit. So for example I think with WoFTM your told he could threaten the region and then all of Allansia, and who knows, the world! This makes the quest have stakes but it is a kind of last hope of mankind.
Having said that yes the repetition of such plots can get boring. I actually really love IL books like Deathtrap and CoT, as well as SJ books like House of Hell and Creature of Havock, and all these have slightly lower stakes.
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 8, 2022 17:40:21 GMT
Do one where all the Allansia villains have won simultaneously, and it's your job to find the McGuffin that can kill one of them, then manipulate the result of the battle royale they are having so that the one you can kill is the last one standing. Have say 5 villains you can kill, 5 villains you can make the winner, but only 2 that intersect. I really like this idea, but with Charles X's caveat, that if you're going for 'epic', 400 paragraphs can seem a little skimpy, in the same way that nu Doctor Who's habit of trying to do it under an hour often felt a bit limp. I think 'save the world' plots are based on laziness. The writer assumes that you'll give a toss, because it's the world, right? But surely the tension in a story comes from the reader/viewer caring about something, and caring for an interesting character is more specific and personal than a generalised 'Oh, the world's going to end'. The end of the world is especially lacking in tension when it's a fantasy world, and the jeopardy is entirely false because the reader knows that if they fail at the story, it doesn't mean the cessation of the series. Having said that, I really wish I'd managed to put a death paragraph in a book that read 'Thanks to your foolhardy actions, the entire world of Titan has been sucked into an abyss of unimaginable horror. You are hereby forbidden to ever play another Fighting Fantasy gamebook!' I would not find those lines too unexpected or even particularly out of character in one of Steve Jackson's sado-fest gamebooks! I can't wait to discover whether he has kept that inimitable tone in his new one or what his new writing style might be. I think the new FF (post Curse Of The Mummy) is in general aimed at a younger audience but that doesn't mean they have to tone down the quality or ambition, as Jonathan Green proved. |
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Aug 14, 2022 12:25:08 GMT
The gamebook format is ideal if its without dice-rolling and stats, in CYOA Who Killed Harlowe Thrombey was one of their best even though Edward Packard wasn't the best at executing it (usual CYOA cliches). With FF though people feel cheated when they play one that is either very, very easy or requires no dice-rolling, and I think after the first couple of playthroughs when it becomes clear who the culprit is it might become less enjoyable. There are ways around this - the whodunnit could be a part of the gamebook instead of the whole, there could be a choice made to sacrifice and swap consistency for playability (that is, down another route a different killer could be revealed even though it's actually factually inconsistent), 'there is more to it than it at first seems' which was the plot of most Murder She Wrote. JK's ridiculously successful works are murder mysteries as we know. I think if you're a) being hunted by henchmen and b) poking about in Port Blacksand, you're going to get into enough fights to justify the first F in FF. And there'll certainly be an opportunity for a combat at the end! As for replayability, it's all about finding the clues which lead to the conclusion - in much the same way that looking for all the gold rings in Trial Of Champions, or encountering all the assassins in Assassins Of Allansia, make those books replayable. Hide them well; give them to interesting characters; make the story as much about the journey as the ending... don't just have the ending be the reveal of the culprit, but about the proof you've acquired which needs to be sufficient to skewer them. Use codewords with numbers each time you find a clue (or maybe a red herring) to reduce cheating - in order to accuse a particular person, you need to add up the numbers for all the clues that point to them. The story isn't just about the ending - it's about the investigation. And the many ways you could be led astray and accuse the wrong person - how could you have jumped to the conclusion it was her instead of him? Better re-read it and make different choices... Great ideas. Spot on, and something I'd like to see, with the caveat it would need to be written by someone with an in-depth knowledge of the source material in AFF Blacksand! Replayability could be ensured by having various plot threads woven together, sometimes diverging, sometimes converging... making it so that you won't necessarily get all the answers to all aspects of the mystery in a single read-through. |
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