Ideas for Fighting Fantasy books for FF5?

[misomiso]

I'll start:-

A sequal to House of Hell, set 40 years later, with the same protaganist.

[a moderator]

That's a bit vague. What kind of sequel are we talking?

Same protagonist, same genre, no other connection to the previous adventure?
The protagonist of HoH winds up in another haunted house and has to fight the forces of evil again?
The protagonist of HoH, finally released from the psychiatric institute in which they've been an inmate for the past 40 years, seeks to prove the existence of the supernatural?
The evil that permeated the House of Drumer has now taken over the housing estate/office block/shopping mall/amusement park/hospital/school/ pudding factory built over its ruins, and only the person responsible for the destruction of the house can fight the new manifestation because reasons?
After a 40-year search, the protagonist of HoH is finally in a position to destroy the affiliated coven run by Count Pravemi?
George the Vampire/the torturer/Shekou/Brother Isaacson/the Ghoul from the kitchen/a bat managed to escape the conflagration that destroyed the House of Drumer, and seeks revenge?
The unspecified forces that chose the protagonist of HoH as a champion against evil want their champion to confront a new evil: [insert whatever 'paranormal' antagonist is currently fashionable]?
Someone is making a film based on the events of HoH, the protagonist is involved somehow, the forces of evil take an interest?
Following a carelessly-worded tweet about devil worshippers, the protagonist of HoH faces the wrath of cancel culture?
The House of Drumer and its residents are just back, and you've ended up there again, because sequels sell, okay?

[philsadler]

Jan 16, 2023 11:48:44 GMT misomiso said:

I'll start:-

A sequal to House of Hell, set 40 years later, with the same protaganist.

I've already done that!

House of Pain.doc (904 KB)

[CharlesX]

I'm afraid my grasp of the English language is perhaps imperfect, but I think by protaganist you mean the hero as opposed to the antagonist the Earl of Drumer? In which case I've always pictured him as a go-getting twenty-something middle-class yuppie, even though I think there's no reason for me to do that. But if he were a middle-aged man at the time of the events, I imagine the events happening about the time he should be going into an old people's home. Because that's where it happens - an old person's home, where the drugs, instead of medicinal, are mind-control like Blake's Seven or the Droneweed from Creature Of Havoc, there is an elaborate conspiracy going on with the nurses and the visitors, when the members have bad dreams and night, it's not just because they're old and imagining things, it's an evil beast outside, where there are secret passageways and Harold Shipman murders and sacrifices.

   I saw a film once based on a true story about a US private hospital which deliberately drugged their mildly ill residents as part of a scam to make them stay much longer than they had to.

[terrysalt]

Jan 16, 2023 14:08:46 GMT philsadler said:

Jan 16, 2023 11:48:44 GMT misomiso said:

I'll start:-

A sequal to House of Hell, set 40 years later, with the same protaganist.

I've already done that!

View Attachment

Is there a point in the book where every option is "jump around"?

[Wilf]

I might have suggested this before...

Who Killed Lord Azzur?

* At its heart, it's a murder mystery - a genre that FF has never done, that plays perfectly to FF's format, as you collect clues (or red herrings) along the way.
* It's set in Port Blacksand. Searching for clues and gossip about the city is bound to upset folks, so there'll still be combats along the way. And a chance to get turned into a toad by Nicodemus.
* Who are the suspects? Someone looking to rule the city? Someone with a grudge? A common thief out of their depth? A disinherited sibling? Naturally, when they're exposed, they won't go quietly.
* It'll (maybe) put an end to the title character being demystified and cheapened by his recent diminishing returns. He should be killed off in a bizarre and mysterious (and permanent) manner.
* Allansia abhors a power vacuum - time to meet a new tyrant for Blacksand - what will she be like? Is she behind the murder?
* Is the murder merely the first stage of a bigger plan?

[thealmightymudworm]

Jan 16, 2023 11:48:44 GMT misomiso said:

I'll start:-

A sequel to House of Hell, set 40 years later, with the same protaganist.

Will you...

Rap the door with the knocker (turn to 357), pull the cord (turn to 275), creep round the house (turn to 289) or use your mobile phone (turn to 400)?

[adrius]

Jan 16, 2023 23:07:25 GMT thealmightymudworm said:

Will you...

Rap the door with the knocker (turn to 357), pull the cord (turn to 275), creep round the house (turn to 289) or use your mobile phone (turn to 400)?

Looks like 400 will definitely be a bad-ending or start of a doomed chain; maybe having the good-ending on 399 will fit well with it.

[Wilf]

House of Hell needs to be expanded. It should have 666 references instead of the usual 400.

[CharlesX]

Jan 16, 2023 22:37:26 GMT Wilf said:

I might have suggested this before...

Who Killed Lord Azzur?

* At its heart, it's a murder mystery - a genre that FF has never done, that plays perfectly to FF's format, as you collect clues (or red herrings) along the way.
* It's set in Port Blacksand. Searching for clues and gossip about the city is bound to upset folks, so there'll still be combats along the way. And a chance to get turned into a toad by Nicodemus.
* Who are the suspects? Someone looking to rule the city? Someone with a grudge? A common thief out of their depth? A disinherited sibling? Naturally, when they're exposed, they won't go quietly.
* It'll (maybe) put an end to the title character being demystified and cheapened by his recent diminishing returns. He should be killed off in a bizarre and mysterious (and permanent) manner.
* Allansia abhors a power vacuum - time to meet a new tyrant for Blacksand - what will she be like? Is she behind the murder?
* Is the murder merely the first stage of a bigger plan?

I think this could be great if done well, but I personally wouldn't be happy wi permanently killing off Lord Azzur, even if he might have been more than a bit overplayed in Assassins Of Allansia. To me he's a very iconic villain - even an antihero - like Mr. Burns, or Count Dracula, or The Master.

[sylas]

I've said it before but I really wouldn't mind a sequel to Crypt of the Sorcerer.

[CharlesX]

Jan 20, 2023 15:18:36 GMT sylas said:

I've said it before but I really wouldn't mind a sequel to Crypt of the Sorcerer.

By which I imagine you mean a proper one rather than vagsancho's The Resurrection Of Razaak

SPOILER: Click to show

Which (very self-awarely mocking how hard Crypt Of The Sorceror is) kills the reader before the adventure even starts.

But I would as well, because Crypt Of The Sorceror has all sorts of good memorable things about it which most of us tend not to notice because of the difficulty (it's very dark, dangerous and full of encounters and adventure). I've sometimes wondered about a video-game style 'training' gamebook in which, were you to win, you would have higher statistics before you face Crypt Of The Sorceror.

[Wilf]

Jan 20, 2023 15:18:36 GMT sylas said:

I've said it before but I really wouldn't mind a sequel to Crypt of the Sorcerer.

In which you play the brother of the Bonekeeper, seeking vengeance on Crypt's player for his death.

[sylas]

The heroes at the end of Crypt defeat Razaak then seal him and his sword inside the tomb before leaving. In the tomb are a whole host of creatures that haven't been dealt with and also Ungoth the Skeleton Lord who is surely some kind of necromancer himself. How was this a happy ending? A sequel would remind you that it wasn't.

[philsadler]

There could never be a sequel to crypt, because no one could ever beat it.

[misomiso]

Jan 17, 2023 7:47:34 GMT Wilf said:

House of Hell needs to be expanded. It should have 666 references instead of the usual 400.

Completely agree; though maybe 667 references just to be safe!

[a moderator]

Given the revisionist take on Battleblade Warrior that's circulating within fandom, how about a sequel in which you play a valiant Lizard Person, heroically seeking a magical item that will destroy all warm-blooded creatures on Titan?

[misomiso]

Jan 22, 2023 0:37:09 GMT a moderator said:

Given the revisionist take on Battleblade Warrior that's circulating within fandom, how about a sequel in which you play a valiant Lizard Person, heroically seeking a magical item that will destroy all warm-blooded creatures on Titan?

What is the revisionist take on battleblade warrior?!

[a moderator]

Jan 22, 2023 14:03:23 GMT misomiso said:

Jan 22, 2023 0:37:09 GMT a moderator said:

Given the revisionist take on Battleblade Warrior that's circulating within fandom, how about a sequel in which you play a valiant Lizard Person, heroically seeking a magical item that will destroy all warm-blooded creatures on Titan?

What is the revisionist take on battleblade warrior?!

As far as I can tell, the idea is that Laskar has changed his allegiances because he realises that the humans in Vymorna are evil for not letting the Lizard People destroy them. Kieran might be able to explain the finer points of the argument, since he was the forum member who originally brought it to my attention.

[kieran]

Jan 22, 2023 16:44:30 GMT a moderator said:

As far as I can tell, the idea is that Laskar has changed his allegiances because he realises that the humans in Vymorna are evil for not letting the Lizard People destroy them. Kieran might be able to explain the finer points of the argument, since he was the forum member who originally brought it to my attention.

On Facebook a couple of years ago, Sascha Stirnberg pointed out some moral ambiguities in how the situation is presented. Hope he doesn't mind me quoting him here:

I just replayed "Battleblade Warrior" and as usual I am puzzled by the narrative; the story is written as if headed for a huge twist - that never comes:

- The city of the PC is under siege, but without backstory this is no proof that the lizard-men are the aggressors (remember that Berlin was under siege 1945, too)
- the opponents of the PC are a multi-ethnic coalition
- the opponents are humanized (e.g. the orc funeral) and don't display any particular evil behaviour
- the PC finds a lizard-woman "repulsive" without realizing that the same might hold true for her the other way around
- the PC is sent on his mission by a clearly-self interested deity which the PC identifies as "good" because it appears "brilliant" and in "golden armour" (i.e. in the way Sauron presented himself during the Second Age)
- once the PC comes to the city where said deity was worshipped there are numerous hints that not everything was right even before its fall (sacrificial slabs etc.) - this is even spelled out by the PC
- the PC receives some directions from a human (Laskar) who used to follow the deity, but fell from faith after he studied intensely this city

And then, after all this set-up, there is - nothing:
The PC kills Laskar without us ever learning his motives, summons powers of mass destruction to slaughter some defenseless enemies and marches off with this power on a potentially genocidal campaign.

I am at a loss what to make of this:
- Is the story intended to be this simplicistic?
- Was the ending maybe changed? (I once read that SJ and IL intervened to dumb down the ending of "Slaves of the Abyss", so this does not seem impossible)
- Was Marc Gascoigne challenging the reader with a "You are a Nazi (if you think about it)"-narrative?

[a moderator]

That is seriously stretching in places.

- The city of the PC is under siege, but without backstory this is no proof that the lizard-men are the aggressors (remember that Berlin was under siege 1945, too)

Perhaps Marc Gascoigne should have brought more of the backstory from Titan into Battleblade Warrior, but the gamebook still makes it clear that the Empire of the Lizard Kings (are Empires only bad when humans run them?) seeks to conquer all of Southern Allansia.

- the opponents of the PC are a multi-ethnic coalition

So were the Axis powers in WWII.

- the opponents are humanized (e.g. the orc funeral) and don't display any particular evil behaviour

The Lizard Men summon demons. The Orcs at the funeral want to sacrifice the PC. The Caarth stake the PC and Katya out in the desert and leave them to die of dehydration. If someone doesn't consider any of this behaviour evil, I'd be wary of accepting an invitation to one of their parties.

The PC [...] summons powers of mass destruction to slaughter some defenseless enemies

Failure to summon those powers results in those 'defenseless enemies' turning on the PC, 'slashing and cutting with their weapons' or firing arrows into the PC's limbs before carving up their now-crippled foe with swords.

[kieran]

Yeah, a lot of these points are either dubious or easily explained away. Still, Laskar's motivation is interesting in that it's unexplained and I like the idea that something he uncovered about Telak made him switch allegiances - even if there isn't much in the text to support that.

[Pete Byrdie]

War is hell; it makes monsters of us all!

I wonder whether the average adventuring/soldiering human in Allansia is as mentally scared by the goblinoid/lizardfolk lives he takes as he might be by the human lives. In real life we don't have much modern experience of killing obviously sentient humanoid beings other than other modern humans with whom we're able to relate somewhat.

If writing a gamebook, the history and culture of the PC and their relationship with other species may be relevant to what choices you give them. Realistically, you can't give the player every possible choice to let them decide what kind of person their avatar is. It would usually be unreasonable to see a human sitting on a log in the wilderness and to just attack them. But what about a human soldier from an enemy army? What about an orc? Or a lizardman? A dark elf?

[CharlesX]

I agree Battleblade Warrior is simplistic but I relate a bit with the aforementioned ambiguities coming from Poland where we both hate Germans (for their occupation and obviously being Nazis) and sympathise with them (for living under the yoke of communism and being fellow continental europeans), and things are further complicated by our own occupation under Russia. This sort of thing makes it easy for us to understand why people work for human reasons rather than black-and-white good versus evil, don't disobey your rulers even if they're nuts reasons.

   That said I came away from reading Battleblade Warrior thinking it was heavily nihilist (or else just rushed) rather than nuanced, pretty much as Sascha Stirnberg (Jewish perhaps but I digress) puts it him\herself:

Was Marc Gascoigne challenging the reader with a "You are a Nazi (if you think about it)"-narrative?

[bloodbeasthandler]

Jan 22, 2023 21:51:15 GMT a moderator said:

That is seriously stretching in places.

I think it's a parody and old Sacha's pulling our legs there. 
 
Admittedly I have been wrong before, and heard and seen things so absurd that I have assumed they are jokes and responded accordingly... only to find the person was in earnest. 

But this is Devil's Advocacy with a tongue in its cheek, I reckon, and I can't take it seriously. 

[thealmightymudworm]

Was Marc Gascoigne challenging the reader with a "You are a Nazi (if you think about it)"-narrative?

One of the very few titles rejected by the publishers of Choose Your Own Adventure.

[paperexplorer]

Zagor in wofm I can be sold on being benign

Lizard men in battleblade warrior though, not so much

[bloodbeasthandler]

Jan 23, 2023 23:33:47 GMT thealmightymudworm said:

Was Marc Gascoigne challenging the reader with a "You are a Nazi (if you think about it)"-narrative?

One of the very few titles rejected by the publishers of Choose Your Own Adventure.

Thanks mate, got a genuine laugh out loud from me. Well done.