How do you apply Skill Boni if you haven't lost Skill points

[schlendrian]

Polls seem to be all the rage the recent weeks, so let me add one of my own

I do know that a similar thread exists, but that focuses on how to fix the issue. In this thread I'm just interested in what's the most common way to deal with the issue. I do think I have listed the major solutions players use above, personally being in the third camp where I interpret Skill Boni as Attack Strength Boni if they are granted by a weapon or piece of armour.

[CharlesX]

I voted 'other'. Most of the time I don't apply these Skill bonuses even where the author's intent might seem to be to do that, because I'm a pedant-esque stickler for the rules. By the time I was reading Port Of Peril I was getting tired of Ian Livingstone grossly misapplying rules he'd written, so when he gives the ambiguous instruction to "raise your Skill to 12" without specifying whether or not you should raise initial skill as well, I thought it was time to give myself the benefit of the doubt. I have to say 99%+ of the time I wouldn't do that.

   Yes, it's very irritating in the case of otherwise well-written gamebooks such as House Of Hell and Dead Of Night - I actually think I sometimes apply the Potion Of Heroism in Dead Of Night as well, just on an egalitarian basis because it affects one of the two big, possible paths.

[scouserob]

I usually consider them as mini-parallels of the Potion of Skill.
There to give you a boost back up, for lost Skill points.

[schlendrian]

Nov 18, 2023 10:03:25 GMT scouserob said:

I usually consider them as mini-parallels of the Potion of Skill.
There to give you a boost back up, for lost Skill points.

That would be option 2

[scouserob]

… forcibly drank at the time you get them. 😬

(To tidy up, slightly, my rubbish analogy and get back to option 1.)

[schlendrian]

Nov 18, 2023 10:53:54 GMT scouserob said:

… forcibly drank at the time you get them. 🫣

(To tidy up, slightly, my rubbish analogy and get back to option 1.)

Ah, sorry, then I misinterpreted your previous post.

[evilwizard]

Option 2. Initial Skill is 10, Current Skill 10. After 22 paragraphs, I collect a Magic Shield that gives +1 Skill, Current Skill becomes 10 (+1) as I cannot exceed my Initial Skill. 46 paragraphs later, I lose 3 Skill because I stuck my hand into a random hole which turned out to be an acid defecating statues bottom, Current Skill becomes 8 [10-7(+1)] as I can now add the bonus because my Current Skill is below the Initial Skill.

[a moderator]

Option 2 where the bonus comes from an item, option 1 for the effects of spells/potions/increased confidence etc.

[Per]

Option 1 in general, 3 if it was clearly intended and the book breaks down otherwise (House of Hell).

[schlendrian]

Nov 18, 2023 15:45:59 GMT Per said:

3 if it was clearly intended

I always convince myself that it was clearly intended

[terrysalt]

"How do you apply Skill Boni if you haven't lost Skill points?"
That's the neat part, you don't.

[bloodbeasthandler]

Nov 18, 2023 15:45:59 GMT Per said:

Option 1 in general, 3 if it was clearly intended and the book breaks down otherwise (House of Hell).

Under the 'normal rules' most of the FF books immediately broke down the moment you rolled a 1 or a 2 for SKILL, before you even turned to para 1. 

The whole problem goes back to a lack of playtesting and checking the books, in this case the playtester/editor should have referred the author to the rules and ascertained whether it was a boost to initial skill or attack strength. 

If i see the words 'restore 1 skill point', or similar wording, that's what i do. It doesn't exceed Initial. 
If i get +1SKILL for wearing something like Elven Boots which increase overall agility or speed then it might be +1 SKILL overall (as long as i am wearing them) 
A magic weapon or suit of armour is an attack strength bonus. 

Nov 18, 2023 15:19:25 GMT evilwizard said:

Option 2. Initial Skill is 10, Current Skill 10. After 22 paragraphs, I collect a Magic Shield that gives +1 Skill, Current Skill becomes 10 (+1) as I cannot exceed my Initial Skill. 46 paragraphs later, I lose 3 Skill because I stuck my hand into a random hole which turned out to be an acid defecating statues bottom, Current Skill becomes 8 [10-7(+1)] as I can now add the bonus because my Current Skill is below the Initial Skill.

Yeah I used to do this.
But then it struck me how absurd it was that the only benefit king Arthur would get for wielding Excalibur is if he was to break his leg by falling off the walls of Camelot. Then he would need to to sort of drop Excalibur on the ground and pick it back up again.

Carrying around a backpack full of gauntlets of weaponskill or Kris knives kept back as a sort of insurance policy in case of serious injury doesn't make any sense. 

[nathanh]

Generally I try to follow the rules to the letter and I don't think there's any other literal interpretation apart from option #1.

On occasion I have been known to treat relevant item bonuses as attack strength bonuses (not just weapons either), particularly on books with high SKILL requirements. I think this is an improvement in many books. I can't immediately think of a book where this would be a bad approach (it'd have to be one where you can gather a few of these and the book is also relatively easy).

I don't think I've ever done #2 but I can see the logic, particularly since we have precedent where some items give you a SKILL bonus when you acquire them but you can subsequently lose them and take an opposite SKILL penalty. I'd only do this for items though. I think this rule would also be an improvement over the literal rules.

[schlendrian]

Nov 19, 2023 17:36:10 GMT bloodbeasthandler said:

But then it struck me how absurd it was that the only benefit king Arthur would get for wielding Excalibur is if he was to break his leg by falling off the walls of Camelot. Then he would need to to sort of drop Excalibur on the ground and pick it back up again.

OT sidenote: The greatest asset of Excalibur, according to Malory, was it's scabbard, which prevented you from bleeding as long as you wore it.

[roidhun]

Nov 20, 2023 16:14:38 GMT schlendrian said:

Nov 19, 2023 17:36:10 GMT bloodbeasthandler said:

But then it struck me how absurd it was that the only benefit king Arthur would get for wielding Excalibur is if he was to break his leg by falling off the walls of Camelot. Then he would need to to sort of drop Excalibur on the ground and pick it back up again.

OT sidenote: The greatest asset of Excalibur, according to Malory, was it's scabbard, which prevented you from bleeding as long as you wore it.

Which would be a problem if you need to bleed yourself after being bitten by a venomous snake!

It seems to me that if an item like a magic sword has the inherent ability to add 2 to your Skill, but your Initial and Current Skill are both 12, it does nothing for you. But if you then suffer a serious injury that would normally reduce you to a Current Skill of 10, the bonus should then become relevant by effectively keeping your Current Skill at 12, as though you hadn't suffered the injury.

I do think a significantly higher percentage of magic weapons should be capable of raising your Initial Skill level, but ones capable of taking it above 12 should remain rare.

[Per]

Nov 24, 2023 6:59:35 GMT roidhun said:

Which would be a problem if you need to bleed yourself after being bitten by a venomous snake!

I think the usefulness of bleeding or sucking after a snakebite is something of a modern myth (one of these that tend to make it into gamebooks, like dry quicksand, of which I'm guilty of several).