Characteristics of FF fans

[petch]

I've been thinking about our friendly little niche community here, and wondering if there are any traits that we as FF fans may share in common. Here are a few of my thoughts, not sure if any of these would resonate with anyone.

- Viewing mundane everyday decisions like 'Shall I brush my teeth now or later?' as part of a decision tree, and then later wondering what would have happened if you had picked the other option. And then later when you are on your hands and knees pulling up weeds in the back garden on a Sunday afternoon, looking plaintively to the sky and thinking 'If only I had done the washing up before putting the bins out, I could have been flying around on the back of a dragon by now.'

- Habitually checking the children's literature and sci-fi sections of every second hand bookshop that you come across in the forlorn hope that they will have a large stash of copies of Magehunter or Revenge of the Vampire, thereby setting you up with a comfortable retirement nest egg.

- Upon entering a newsagents or grocers and being greeted in a friendly manner by the person behind the counter, needing to suppress a primal urge to violently assault them.

- When reaching a major life goal like getting a promotion at work or the birth of a child, thinking in a moment of deep soul satisfaction: 'Yes. I have finally reached paragraph 400.'

...Or maybe it's just me.

[CharlesX]

'A Beautiful Mind'-like tendency to imagine the location of the 10th blunt pencil in the pack bought a month ago is deeply important.

[petch]

Feb 18, 2024 9:41:57 GMT CharlesX said:

'A Beautiful Mind'-like tendency to imagine the location of the 10th blunt pencil in the pack bought a month ago is deeply important.

Ah yes, I have a special pencil and pair of dice that I use specifically for playing gamebooks, and if I don't use them it doesn't feel right 

[schlendrian]

I still have a bit of the distrust towards white wine Steve Jackson instilled in me

[CharlesX]

An FF fan's take on The Matrix:

"So, one of these two pills will let you experience the real world and one will let you continue this surreal simulation\illusion".

"So, which colour means which?"

"That would definitely be telling."

[vastariner]

I always listen at closed doors in case there is a clawbeast or lizardman behind it.

[stevendoig]

I certainly do the long search in charity shops/ second hand bookshops / car boot sales for FF books.


Jings, the hours I have wasted when I could be doing. -... Something else?

[sylas]

One of the more important things I've learned over the many years as a FF fan is how to instantly distinguish between a green spine FF book and a green Xbox game cover.

[sleepyscholar]

I do have a little bit of data about this, though it is weighted towards how being an FF fan affects behaviour over the life course (and more specifically, tourist behaviour, since that's one of the things my department is in to).

I was hoping to be able to 'present' it at FFF5, but it's not really the sort of thing FFFs do, so it could end up me blathering in the bar...

It's not as funny as some of the suggestions here, but I reckon it could provoke the occasional nod of recognition. And the 'life course' approach was deliberately chosen, as so many people view being a fan as a bit of fad that you grow out of.

[Wizard Slayer]

I was going to say something about listening at doors before opening them, but seeing as that's taken:

- standing there second-guessing which way to go when faced with a T-junction or set of doors and you've never been there before. Bonus points for drawing a map so can try another one next time you come that way.

- in a similar vein, never retracing your steps, even if you realise there's something back where you were which you now see would come in very handy.

- doing or saying strange things in otherwise ordinary situations, because if you've got the option to do them there must be a reason for it, right?

- getting unreasonably excited on reading anything that mentions a number between 1 and 400 and instantly committing it to memory.

- carrying around everywhere a sack of all the old crap that you've found or bought over the last couple of days - mouse skulls, onyx eggs, tin whistles, mouldy bits of cheese - because there's always the chance some of it will prove vitally useful.

- knowing that for any key you find anywhere, you're bound to also be able to find the exact door or box that it fits, even if it's miles away from where you are now.

[bloodbeasthandler]

Feb 18, 2024 8:37:28 GMT petch said:

- Habitually checking the children's literature and sci-fi sections of every second hand bookshop that you come across 

This for sure. Every time. I cannot stop myself. 

I think the books have affected what I do when i watch telly (films especially).
When i watch older horror, sci-fi or fantasy films I tend to keep half an eye out for things that may have inspired the FF authors. Clash of the Titans, Jason and the Argonauts, some of the Hammer Horror films etc.
 
I also catch myself thinking about branching paths and what-ifs when watching films and how a gamebook author would have handled it. 

[Per]

Not unrelated to my Lindenbaum entry: when I'm out in the woods, confronted with a clear choice of obvious paths or sometimes in other situations, occasionally I will be struck by gamebook vibes and perhaps think about how the choice might be framed in a book, or how I might present the options if I had been accompanied by another gamebook fan.

I'd check second hand stores for gamebooks much more if I had any realistic chance of finding them here. I think I've seen a handful in about twenty years of sporadically visiting charity shops, garage sales and the like.

[vastariner]

I never throw money into wishing wells.

[bloodbeasthandler]

Feb 21, 2024 19:37:58 GMT vastariner said:

I never throw money into wishing wells.

Ah, but do you give money to beggars in the expectation of some crucial item or piece of advice? (Or a LUCK point at the very least)

[CharlesX]

Feb 21, 2024 3:44:34 GMT sleepyscholar said:

I do have a little bit of data about this, though it is weighted towards how being an FF fan affects behaviour over the life course (and more specifically, tourist behaviour, since that's one of the things my department is in to).

I was hoping to be able to 'present' it at FFF5, but it's not really the sort of thing FFFs do, so it could end up me blathering in the bar...

It's not as funny as some of the suggestions here, but I reckon it could provoke the occasional nod of recognition. And the 'life course' approach was deliberately chosen, as so many people view being a fan as a bit of fad that you grow out of.

Hi sleepyscholar no idea whether you'd kindly provide a link to some of your findings when you feel they're ready.

     By the way I'm amazed your university would accept Fighting Fantasy could be influential (even if it is not only foreign but non-western) because FF has always been little more than a cult hit. They never made a transition to television or attracted the kind of following Dune or Discworld has, so it seems to me like persuading a university Michael Moorcock or say R. L. Green could affect people's behaviour (guess I'm kind of complimenting your political skills).

[bloodbeasthandler]

I’m sure sleepyscholar can and will answer for himself, but i thought i’d throw my tuppence-worth in now.

Feb 22, 2024 16:22:22 GMT CharlesX said:

FF has always been little more than a cult hit.

Do remember the books were 'top of the charts' in sales for a while, and millions were sold. Their heyday was the 80’s certainly, but they were a bit more than a flash-in-the-pan. I suppose they are a ‘cult’ now, but to my mind they were not a cult at the time. They were pretty much mainstream for a while there.

Feb 22, 2024 16:22:22 GMT CharlesX said:

They never made a transition to television or attracted the kind of following Dune or Discworld has, so it seems to me like persuading a university Michael Moorcock or say R. L. Green could affect people's behaviour ....

The mighty Dungeons and Dragons (TM) has traditionally struggled to make it to the silver screen too. (though admittedly it did have a cartoon)

Feb 22, 2024 16:22:22 GMT CharlesX said:

...By the way I'm amazed your university would accept Fighting Fantasy could be influential (even if it is not only foreign but non-western) ....  seems to me like persuading a university Michael Moorcock or say R. L. Green could affect people's behaviour (guess I'm kind of complimenting your political skills).

It seems to me that you’ve misread what he said.
As you may know, tourism for the purposes of visiting locations connected to popular culture is most certainly a ‘thing’. -whether it be touring the countryside of Northern Ireland looking for where Game of Thrones was filmed, or (as I myself have done) gone the Dorchester area of southern England to see Thomas Hardy’s Wessex, or gone out of my way to find Carry On film locations
As for the weighting referred to in the initial posting, I think this refers to a survey that was carried out a while ago, and advertised on these very boards:

An Exciting Survey Where YOU Are The Respondent! | Fighting Fantazine (proboards.com)

So what was being referred to was perhaps not so much a matter of FF being influential, more a case study of the behaviours of FF fans themselves.


As for Michael Moorcock, well, despite him not being a household name, I would argue influence is quite considerable – look at The Witcher for one thing, and The Eternal Champion books massively influenced Games Workshop’s Warhammer universe with all that that implies.


My last point would be never underestimate how much all the arts, games, music, stories, myths (modern or ancient) affect people’s opinions, behaviours and attitudes (and therefore their actions). 

[CharlesX]

Feb 22, 2024 18:15:45 GMT bloodbeasthandler said:

I’m sure sleepyscholar can and will answer for himself, but i thought i’d throw my tuppence-worth in now.

Feb 22, 2024 16:22:22 GMT CharlesX said:

FF has always been little more than a cult hit.

Do remember the books were 'top of the charts' in sales for a while, and millions were sold. Their heyday was the 80’s certainly, but they were a bit more than a flash-in-the-pan. I suppose they are a ‘cult’ now, but to my mind they were not a cult at the time. They were pretty much mainstream for a while there.

Feb 22, 2024 16:22:22 GMT CharlesX said:

They never made a transition to television or attracted the kind of following Dune or Discworld has, so it seems to me like persuading a university Michael Moorcock or say R. L. Green could affect people's behaviour ....

The mighty Dungeons and Dragons (TM) has traditionally struggled to make it to the silver screen too. (though admittedly it did have a cartoon)

Feb 22, 2024 16:22:22 GMT CharlesX said:

...By the way I'm amazed your university would accept Fighting Fantasy could be influential (even if it is not only foreign but non-western) ....  seems to me like persuading a university Michael Moorcock or say R. L. Green could affect people's behaviour (guess I'm kind of complimenting your political skills).

It seems to me that you’ve misread what he said.
As you may know, tourism for the purposes of visiting locations connected to popular culture is most certainly a ‘thing’. -whether it be touring the countryside of Northern Ireland looking for where Game of Thrones was filmed, or (as I myself have done) gone the Dorchester area of southern England to see Thomas Hardy’s Wessex, or gone out of my way to find Carry On film locations
As for the weighting referred to in the initial posting, I think this refers to a survey that was carried out a while ago, and advertised on these very boards:

An Exciting Survey Where YOU Are The Respondent! | Fighting Fantazine (proboards.com)

So what was being referred to was perhaps not so much a matter of FF being influential, more a case study of the behaviours of FF fans themselves.


As for Michael Moorcock, well, despite him not being a household name, I would argue influence is quite considerable – look at The Witcher for one thing, and The Eternal Champion books massively influenced Games Workshop’s Warhammer universe with all that that implies.


My last point would be never underestimate how much all the arts, games, music, stories, myths (modern or ancient) affect people’s opinions, behaviours and attitudes (and therefore their actions). 

Don't disagree with your first two quotes, of course measurements of success, like taste, can be a bit subjective. I personally haven't observed proof of FF's influence in reference to tourism. I believe Moorcock was a bad example, but the thrust of my argument was I cannot see many examples where FF has influenced popular culture to the extent it would affect tourism (I imagine this was indeed one of the purposes of Sleepscholar's, there may have been other objectives). Yes, paperback sales were high, but computer games were not phenomenal in the day and are borderline cult-like today, board games weren't very big etc.

   I did participate in Sleepyscholar's survey, it was well-written, and I imagine what Sleepyscholar will present to his university will be a combination of how FF fans behave themselves and the extent to which this affects others and popular culture by being influential, in particular with reference to how countries could find this profitable both via tourism and influence\pop culture, most academic work intending to have layers of audiences and intentions, that's my reading anyhoo. 

[sleepyscholar]

Feb 22, 2024 18:49:16 GMT CharlesX said:

Don't disagree with your first two quotes, of course measurements of success, like taste, can be a bit subjective. I personally haven't observed proof of FF's influence in reference to tourism. I believe Moorcock was a bad example, but the thrust of my argument was I cannot see many examples where FF has influenced popular culture to the extent it would affect tourism (I imagine this was indeed one of the purposes of Sleepscholar's, there may have been other objectives). Yes, paperback sales were high, but computer games were not phenomenal in the day and are borderline cult-like today, board games weren't very big etc.

   I did participate in Sleepyscholar's survey, it was well-written, and I imagine what Sleepyscholar will present to his university will be a combination of how FF fans behave themselves and the extent to which this affects others and popular culture by being influential, in particular with reference to how countries could find this profitable both via tourism and influence\pop culture, most academic work intending to have layers of audiences and intentions, that's my reading anyhoo. 

I'm at a Japanese university, and I guess like most in the world, box-ticking is the order of the day, rather than actually caring about content. When we do a curriculum, all the effort goes into making a collection of courses whose names sound good. Similarly, with research, you give them the title and little interest is paid to the content. My paper was called 'Fan Interest Over the Life Course as a Tourist Motivator' so the question of the significance of FF doesn't really come up there. Where it does come up is me persuading my university to part-fund my trip over to FFF5!

Part of what I was looking at was the way that being a fan does not necessarily involve being in a hermetically sealed fandom. In my experience people often belong to multiple fandoms. I was an RPG fan first and foremost, but I also participated in SF fandom, I exchanged fanzines with a Doctor Who zine, as well as sundry postal gaming zines, I dabbled in comics fandom and music fandom (since I collate a music APA, in many ways that's the one fandom left standing!). An extreme case maybe, but many of the respondents of my survey were also interested in related fields. Whether this interest was strong enough for them to call themselves 'fans' was a point (which does get mentioned in passing), but you can recognise that this is a matter of degree, not absolutes. 

I originally intended to follow up the research and do more papers, but in the course of last year I discovered my university's duplicity (and a characteristic of Japanese employment that would be illegal in any other so-called advanced nation), so I have scaled back my research to the bare minimum. 

The preliminary paper was published in my faculty journal. I don't recommend it (and not just because there's a typo on the first line). It's an academic paper sketching out possibilities for further research and contains, at best, only 2 jokes.

[sleepyscholar]

Oh, and yes, bloodbeasthandler is bang on: it isn't really about how 'influential' FF, was except in terms of how it influenced the lives of those who encountered it. Which is the topic of this thread, no?

[bloodbeasthandler]

It is not always obvious when FF (and gamebooks in general) directly or indirectly cast their influence. 

I was looking up the Playstation Game Deathtrap Dungeon (a game that in my opinion did not really conjure up the spirit and atmosphere of the book) and in doing so found something in the Youtube comments section (yes... I know, please bear with me... ) of a Youtube clip called Was it Good? - Deathtrap Dungeon and it went as follows: 


miyazaki himself mentioned that trying to beat fighting fantasy books while not knowing much english was one of his main inspirations for the serie as a whole.

but instead of mentioning that serie of books in particular he names Sorcery! as the main culprit for weird obtuse things in his games haha


The series being referred to is the highly successful Elden Ring, and Miyazaki must be Hidetaka Miyazaki

[bloodbeasthandler]

Feb 22, 2024 18:49:16 GMT CharlesX said:

I personally haven't observed proof of FF's influence in reference to tourism. I believe Moorcock was a bad example, but the thrust of my argument was I cannot see many examples where FF has influenced popular culture to the extent it would affect tourism

Yes, fair point CharlesX. 
I am unlikely to ever visit the real-life town of Chiang Mai (Thailand) or go backpacking around Nepal to see Birethante, Khare, and whatnot imagining i am in the Shamutanti Hills. They'll not be much like their FF equivalents, will they? 

BUT...
If the gamebooks had been written and based closely upon real life locations in the UK (like the Steam Highwayman books are), I would probably have paid them a visit by now, in the same way as at some point in the future I will look to visit real-life locations connected to Tolkien's writing, and the Shrewbury area (for Cadfael). 

[CharlesX]

Feb 23, 2024 19:24:39 GMT bloodbeasthandler said:

It is not always obvious when FF (and gamebooks in general) directly or indirectly cast their influence. 

I was looking up the Playstation Game Deathtrap Dungeon (a game that in my opinion did not really conjure up the spirit and atmosphere of the book) and in doing so found something in the Youtube comments section (yes... I know, please bear with me... ) of a Youtube clip called Was it Good? - Deathtrap Dungeon and it went as follows: 


miyazaki himself mentioned that trying to beat fighting fantasy books while not knowing much english was one of his main inspirations for the serie as a whole.

but instead of mentioning that serie of books in particular he names Sorcery! as the main culprit for weird obtuse things in his games haha


The series being referred to is the highly successful Elden Ring, and Miyazaki must be Hidetaka Miyazaki

Lol I saw Was it Good - Deathtrap Dungeon like a month or so ago and the Youtuber said he'd been totally stumped by Deathtrap Dungeon as a kid, and spent absolutely ages eventually defeating it as an adult, not being able to before because of both an already unplaytested unfair difficulty level and rubbish controls, and seeming to mention the design throughout was uninspired and bland. To be completist he then defeated a version of Deathtrap Dungeon that was a harder console variant (in the same vid). He did not enjoy either. 

[blueswift]

- Wondering whatever happened to Keith Martin. For years I was curious on this point and probably thought about it maybe once every couple of years. I adore unsolved mysteries so Mr. Martin's status was within my sphere of curiosity though I respect his privacy of course. However, thanks to Mark Lain's article on Keith in issue 17 of Fighting Fantazine, some degree of closure on this topic has been located. Thanks Mark!

- Speculating about what Champskees went on to do now that Champskees is no longer active on this forum.

- Calculating if a real-life situation has a greater chance or less of a chance of occurring than successfully defeating Razaak without cheating. My speculation on this is that Razaak's stamina of 20 was a typographical error and a stamina of 10 was the author's intention. In my opinion, the Wizard edition should have fixed this.

- Picturing Ian Livingstone having a cheeky smile on his face when he rains doom on players despite them not being at fault. This is conjecture on my part but I think Ian likes trolling readers.

- Reminiscing on the splendor of the 80's and 90's. Perhaps I'm the odd one out here in that I'm under 30 years old (not by much though) and missed the 80's entirely and have almost no recollection at all of the 90's. I had no idea Fighting Fantasy even existed until about 2011 when I discovered it on Demain Katz's Gamebooks database.

- Joking that my luck points must be low or have run out when something unpleasant occurs, i.e. getting stuck in bad traffic through no fault of my own.

[paperexplorer]

- finding a discarded bottle that contains a clear, odourless liquid and contemplating whether it is a restorative or poison

- fighting the urge to carve "rest ye here weary traveller" into every park bench you find

[CharlesX]

Reckoning odds in the '30s and '40s % something good will happen are really good after being slightly brainwashed from reading Sr Ian's adventures.

Being a Knightmare fan. It's DEFINITELY not going to come back; and like when gamebooks were popular, came from another time, one only older players will remember. 

[petch]

Mar 17, 2024 6:39:33 GMT paperexplorer said:

- finding a discarded bottle that contains a clear, odourless liquid and contemplating whether it is a restorative or poison

Ah yes, the rule of 'drink everything that you find'.

Aha, an old Tango bottle containing a warm yellow liquid lying on the ground at an A road layby. I'd better quaff some, doubtless it is a Potion of Concentration that has been left here by a kindly wizard like Yaztromo to aid drivers on the remainder of their drives home.

....Urgh. You dirty old bastard, Yaztromo.

[CharlesX]

Mar 17, 2024 6:39:33 GMT paperexplorer said:

- finding a discarded bottle that contains a clear, odourless liquid and contemplating whether it is a restorative or poison

- fighting the urge to carve "rest ye here weary traveller" into every park bench you find

Being afraid that when you sit in a strange new chair it will either restore your abilities or curse them, or summon\turn into a bad guy such as a golem.

   To paraphrase something Freud never said, sometimes a chair is just a chair.

[paperexplorer]

- never introducing your son in a straightforward manner, but rather pointing to him and saying "brothers and sisters I have none, but that man's father is my father's son"

[CharlesX]

Mar 25, 2024 2:33:18 GMT paperexplorer said:

- never introducing your son in a straightforward manner, but rather pointing to him and saying "brothers and sisters I have none, but that man's father is my father's son"

Lol That might be a characteristic of those pretentious Mensa members. I knew one at my old grammar\private school, their magazine was just puzzles for 15-16 year-olds combined with borderline racist rants in their letters page.

[Gabe Fandango]

I still have the instinctive habit to check for green spines every time I set foot into a book store (not just second-hand) or library, even though I know the old versions are out of print long ago.