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Post by misomiso on Mar 28, 2024 19:20:59 GMT
The Dungeon on Blood Island
From Sir Ian...
On the eve of the 40th anniversary of Deathtrap Dungeon, I'm delighted to announce I've written a sequel which will be published in September by Scholastic UK. The Dungeon on Blood Island will have a cover by the amazing Iain McCaig who painted the original Deathtrap Dungeon cover, internal illustrations by Krisztián Balla, and a new map by Leo Hartas. Looking forward to luring you to your doom! Where's Throm when you need him? 😂
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Post by mooncat on Mar 28, 2024 23:11:43 GMT
Interesting if it's not in Fang anymore. Blood Island is where Carnuss trained the slaves to enter the dungeon, right? I wonder why the dungeon has moved there now.
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Post by paperexplorer on Mar 29, 2024 6:50:28 GMT
From Fightingfantasy.com:
Jealous of the fame and fortune that Baron Sukumvit’s Deathtrap Dungeon had brought him, his brother Lord Carnuss and an army of slaves spend five years building the ultimate dungeon on Blood Island. Offering a prize of the Golden Orb of Fang, he challenges all-comers to risk their lives to find this priceless treasure and escape with it alive. Filled with deadly creatures, lethal traps, fierce competitors, and danger lurking at every turn, are YOU brave enough to enter The Dungeon on Blood Island?
So Carnuss is back.... I killed that guy!
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Post by King Gillibran on Mar 30, 2024 7:20:55 GMT
I am so excited. I was beginning to think we wouldnt get one. This is amazing!!! Best of all, Iain Mcaig returns!
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Post by mooncat on Apr 3, 2024 23:10:20 GMT
From Fightingfantasy.com: Jealous of the fame and fortune that Baron Sukumvit’s Deathtrap Dungeon had brought him, his brother Lord Carnuss and an army of slaves spend five years building the ultimate dungeon on Blood Island. Offering a prize of the Golden Orb of Fang, he challenges all-comers to risk their lives to find this priceless treasure and escape with it alive. Filled with deadly creatures, lethal traps, fierce competitors, and danger lurking at every turn, are YOU brave enough to enter The Dungeon on Blood Island? So Carnuss is back.... I killed that guy! Funnily enough first thing I'd thought was maybe it's Carnuss building a rival dungeon, but then was also pretty certain he was dead (I haven't read Trial of Champions for like 20 years)! Ah well, however he comes back, I'm excited to read it! For someone in the early days of getting back into the books, it'll be nice to read a book that's both new, and also distilled to the purest essence of FF with a nice dungeon crawl! Edit: actually around 30 years. I keep forgetting just how long ago it is now...
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Post by evilwizard on Apr 18, 2024 19:08:06 GMT
Assuming this takes place before Deathtrap Dungeon and Trial of Champions and is not Ian forgetting his own lore again
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 18, 2024 19:33:01 GMT
From Fightingfantasy.com: Jealous of the fame and fortune that Baron Sukumvit’s Deathtrap Dungeon had brought him, his brother Lord Carnuss and an army of slaves spend five years building the ultimate dungeon on Blood Island. Offering a prize of the Golden Orb of Fang, he challenges all-comers to risk their lives to find this priceless treasure and escape with it alive. Filled with deadly creatures, lethal traps, fierce competitors, and danger lurking at every turn, are YOU brave enough to enter The Dungeon on Blood Island? So Carnuss is back.... I killed that guy! Perhaps you haven't seen enough TV any event like that must have been a long dream, alternate reality, LSD trip, seemingly fatal injuries he can recover from in a month with barely a stitch, body double, something a powerful magician or necromancer can fix etc. So either Sir Ian is setting it before Trial Of Champions, or you can assume he's doing some BS like that. I personally don't really appreciate another Throm reference, I hope Sir Ian won't be shoehorning him in like he does with Lord Azzur (e.g. Throm's brother, too).
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 18, 2024 19:33:51 GMT
How long had Deathtrap Dungeon been going on for before it was beaten?
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Post by hallucination on Apr 18, 2024 20:28:34 GMT
If this new adventure is set before DD, I suppose that means victory for any contestant in The Walk is totally doomed from the get go
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 19, 2024 8:27:22 GMT
If this new adventure is set before DD, I suppose that means victory for any contestant in The Walk is totally doomed from the get go But then if this is Carnuss' off-brand Lidl version of The Walk, maybe it was beaten before the official version.
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Post by hallucination on Apr 19, 2024 11:56:45 GMT
Ah, right! I suppose so!
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 19, 2024 17:27:34 GMT
If this new adventure is set before DD, I suppose that means victory for any contestant in The Walk is totally doomed from the get go But then if this is Carnuss' off-brand Lidl version of The Walk, maybe it was beaten before the official version. That would also be another reason Lord Carnuss were very jealous of his brother, having built his own Deathtrap Dungeon\The Walk later (will it have a name, or will it be like the many unnamed bad guys in Eye Of The Dragon) only to have an adventurer win through earlier, as well.
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 20, 2024 15:20:19 GMT
If this new adventure is set before DD, I suppose that means victory for any contestant in The Walk is totally doomed from the get go They say you acquire characteristics of things you see and hear. Having seen some political propaganda I'm wondering whether you're only told no one has beaten the dungeon, Dungeon Masters are told no one in living memory has acquired all three gems before, that while that is recorded and believed adventurers truthfully have done so. Baron Sukumvit tells you to go the wrong way and would rather you call him a worm than Hail him so that wouldn't be without enough evidence, either.
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Post by pip on Apr 20, 2024 20:49:17 GMT
I checked the ending of Trial of Champions again to make sure, and while it's implied that you kill Carnuss at the end (just because that's typically what happens when you win a fight), there is no description of his death whatsoever, so you could consider that he was maybe defeated but not killed. He possibly yielded, declared you to be the champion, and you were satisfied with that and spared him. I'm aware it's a stretch, and surely not how any of us thought of it at the time, but if the new story is a direct sequel and if he's still alive, it at least doesn't directly contradict anything that was written beforehand. At least that is how I'll think of it.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 20, 2024 22:36:19 GMT
He possibly yielded, declared you to be the champion, and you were satisfied with that and spared him. My only problem with that is that the reason you challenge him is to avenge those who died at the arena and it doesn't seem like letting Carnuss scarper back to Blood Island really addresses that.
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Post by hallucination on Apr 21, 2024 8:30:31 GMT
He could’ve been in league with one of Allansia‘s many dastardly necromancers
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 153
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on May 8, 2024 16:09:02 GMT
Oh boy... here we go again. is not Ian forgetting his own lore again My main fear in a nutshell. So we killed Lord Carnuss at the end of Trial of Champions, may we assume he will be back? Or is there a plot-twist?
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Post by CharlesX on May 8, 2024 16:50:22 GMT
Oh boy... here we go again. is not Ian forgetting his own lore again My main fear in a nutshell. So we killed Lord Carnuss at the end of Trial of Champions, may we assume he will be back? Or is there a plot-twist? There is something of a consensus here this will be set between Deathtrap Dungeon and Trial Of Champions. Unless Trial Of Champions is non-canonical, possibly because YOU were doing FF's spell-answer to LSD (smoke-weed?), Trial Of Champions is from some alternate reality (which works best in present day and sci-fi settings, not sword-and-sorcery), or Sir Ian has forgotten and\or doesn't care about the events in Trial.
There has also been a brief exchange earlier about whether Lord Carnuss was killed at the end of Trial, for me those arguments aren't convincing enough. At least if you spared him, you'd so something sensible like trap him in tight prison instead of letting him rebuild his entire empire and dungeon.
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Post by scouserob on May 8, 2024 17:12:09 GMT
Somehow Carnuss returned.
There isn’t much time between Deathtrap Dungeon (the gamebook) and Trial of Champions. Only a year, during which Carnuss collects and tests slaves ready to take on Deathtrap Dungeon II. Still possible though.
Considering the build time (5 years from the synopsis) I think it is most likely that this is set in the later years of the first Deathtrap Dungeon’s annual trials.
It will almost certainly be beaten at the first attempt by YOU.
The options I can think of, as discussed above in the thread include:
1. Set during the first Deathtrap Dungeon’s nine (?) year unbeaten run. 2. Set simultaneously with the first Deathtrap Dungeon’s defeat. 3. Set between the books Deathtrap Dungeon and Trial of Champions. (1 year window) 4. Set after Trial of Champions. (Carnuss spared.) 5. Set after Trial of Champions. (Carnuss only seriously wounded/nearly dead.) 6. Set after Trial of Champions. (Carnuss resurrected.)
My guess is option 1. 🤔
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Post by Per on May 8, 2024 17:18:41 GMT
7. Premise of book will never quite be squared with established lore, anyone poking around in this will be accused of being is already considered to be a big nerd.
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Post by CharlesX on May 8, 2024 19:02:44 GMT
7. Premise of book will never quite be squared with established lore, anyone poking around in this will be accused of being is already considered to be a big nerd. Quite possibly, although we're all playing a guessing game before the book itself is published, so I'm saying Sir Ian might well be "not guilty". He admittedly doesn't have the best track record by way of the odd example in Assassins Of Allansia, but even there he improved his writing (with only very technical inconsistencies) with his Shadow Of The Giants. My expectation is Sir Ian might simply not bother setting it at a particular time (something you're implying), it being most tenable its set during Deathtrap Dungeon's unbeaten run.
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Post by CharlesX on May 8, 2024 19:10:18 GMT
Somehow Carnuss returned. There isn’t much time between Deathtrap Dungeon (the gamebook) and Trial of Champions. Only a year, during which Carnuss collects and tests slaves ready to take on Deathtrap Dungeon II. Still possible though. Considering the build time (5 years from the synopsis) I think it is most likely that this is set in the later years of the first Deathtrap Dungeon’s annual trials. It will almost certainly be beaten at the first attempt by YOU. No, I think it unlikely my adventurer will beat either of Sir Ian's dungeons on their first attempt. I know your meaning though. I did mention a theory above that adventurers had beaten the dungeon before, or at least got as far as the gems, and that it was all lying propaganda. That doesn't seem incredible.
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Post by scouserob on May 8, 2024 19:47:46 GMT
😂 I wonder how this will rank on the pre-roll probability table. Usually I prefer 20%+ but for a Deathtrap Dungeon style knock off, I think somewhere between 10% and 20% would be about right. It should be hard. 💪🏻 (Whilst Shadow of the Giants and Secrets of Salamonis’ difficulty levels worked well, it would be way too easy for this.)
As for previous Running Man style winners, as you note, Igbut the Trialmaster says: “…nobody has ever found all three gems before!” From his growing excitement as you reveal the gems, it seems likely that he at least believes it. (Though who knows just how many of the 10 events he was in place for.)
It seems likely from his statement that adventurers have previously managed to get that far with 0-2 gems and ended up as his slave to: “… prepare and modify the dungeon for future contestants.”
Stuff like, find all the gems, polish the mirrors, feed the Bloodbeast, escort the Medusa out of her cage for a walk to stretch her legs, make sure Ian Livingstone’s stump isn’t getting infected, that kind of thing.
As the tunnel entrance with a large crowd is just beyond the gem door and the cheap final crossbow trap, a cover up of previous winners would be nigh on impossible.
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 153
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on May 8, 2024 20:48:29 GMT
There is something of a consensus here this will be set between Deathtrap Dungeon and Trial Of Champions. Unless Trial Of Champions is non-canonical, possibly because YOU were doing FF's spell-answer to LSD (smoke-weed?), Trial Of Champions is from some alternate reality (which works best in present day and sci-fi settings, not sword-and-sorcery), or Sir Ian has forgotten and\or doesn't care about the events in Trial. There has also been a brief exchange earlier about whether Lord Carnuss was killed at the end of Trial, for me those arguments aren't convincing enough. At least if you spared him, you'd so something sensible like trap him in tight prison instead of letting him rebuild his entire empire and dungeon. Well... since you enter the Trial of Champions with the hidden purpose of avenging the other slaves and kill Lord Carnuss at the end, I don't see YOU having a change of heart at the killing stroke à là Crimson Tide and allowing him to live. But, then again... it is Sir Ian. Literally, that would be my guess.
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Post by scouserob on Jun 6, 2024 22:56:46 GMT
Update on Ian Livingstone’s Facebook page confirms that Fungeon in Blood Island will be set between Deathtrap Dungeon and Trial of Champions!!! That seems a tiny time window for it to fit into. Just finished the final edit of The Dungeon on Blood Island. It's a sequel to Deathtrap Dungeon and a prequel to Trial of Champions. Amazing cover by the maestro himself Iain McCaig, wonderfully atmospheric internal illustrations by Krisztian Balla and a beautiful new map by Leo Hartas. The official launch will be at Fighting Fantasy Fest 5 on 7th September. #Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks #Scholastic UKwww.facebook.com/share/p/YYG2YxwKHdUygZAS/?
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Wildy
Wanderer
Posts: 52
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by Wildy on Jun 7, 2024 17:49:37 GMT
Following on that news, when I managed to speak to sir Ian at the UK game expo, he told me that his playtester(s?) were thrilled with the book, calling it his best ever! Much hype!
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Post by scouserob on Jun 7, 2024 18:03:11 GMT
That is great news. Assuming that some of those playtesters are members of this forum, as they were for the last couple of gamebooks, then that augers very well indeed. (Considering how well Shadow of the Giants and Secrets of Salamonos both turned out.) 😀👍🏻
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Post by CharlesX on Jun 7, 2024 18:33:29 GMT
That is great news. Assuming that some of those playtesters are members of this forum, as they were for the last couple of gamebooks, then that augers very well indeed. (Considering how well Shadow of the Giants and Secrets of Salamonos both turned out.) 😀👍🏻 Weell.. Both those gamebooks had too many technical errors for my liking, so we shall see whether those playtesters(s) were (ahem) the sort of people who would have said anything at all Ian Livingstone had just written were his "best ever". Also whether Sylas or someone like him managed to have entire bits of the gamebook completely rewritten, hopefully in good ways.
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Wildy
Wanderer
Posts: 52
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by Wildy on Jun 7, 2024 19:01:28 GMT
That is great news. Assuming that some of those playtesters are members of this forum, as they were for the last couple of gamebooks, then that augers very well indeed. (Considering how well Shadow of the Giants and Secrets of Salamonos both turned out.) 😀👍🏻 Weell.. Both those gamebooks had too many technical errors for my liking, so we shall see whether those playtesters(s) were (ahem) the sort of people who would have said anything at all Ian Livingstone had just written were his "best ever". Also whether Sylas or someone like him managed to have entire bits of the gamebook completely rewritten, hopefully in good ways. In the end, “best ever” depends on people’s taste. Maybe the gameplay is not crazy good (or flawless), or can’t be improved much (in a classic dungeon crawl) but the writing style and/or the story could be immersive and breathtaking. Or maybe we don’t need two adventure sheets to track the items! Anyway it all depends on the playtesters’ tastes. Good news is at least they didn’t say “it’s good enough”
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jun 7, 2024 19:39:20 GMT
That is great news. Assuming that some of those playtesters are members of this forum, as they were for the last couple of gamebooks, then that augers very well indeed. (Considering how well Shadow of the Giants and Secrets of Salamonos both turned out.) 😀👍🏻 Weell.. Both those gamebooks had too many technical errors for my liking, so we shall see whether those playtesters(s) were (ahem) the sort of people who would have said anything at all Ian Livingstone had just written were his "best ever". Also whether Sylas or someone like him managed to have entire bits of the gamebook completely rewritten, hopefully in good ways. Playtesting gamebooks is actually insanely difficult to get 100% error free, especially if you're alone in doing it. There's plenty of things that can get overlooked. Proofreading from a computer screen is also much harder than if you had a physical copy. Regarding rewriting sections, you have to think about what is best for the fanbase and what is best for the target audience as well as what is best for the author. You can think your own views might be the better way forward but you have to be careful it isn't changing too much from the original works and not to be disrespectful due to having a completely different opinion. After all, the book belongs to the author and not the playtester/proofreader. Saying that, I found Ian to be very approachable and open to new ideas and suggestions on improvement as long as the reasoning behind them are sound and not just from a personal preference. For my own thoughts on playtesting and proofreading, I feel that the more people you have looking at your project, the better it will be for it. It also helps if you can get different kinds of playtesters. You need spellcheckers to find the spelling and grammatical errors; analysts to make sure all paragraph links work as intended; storytellers who will find little ways to enhance an adventure without altering much of the existing work; and dogged players who will play the adventure to death in order to find a solid overall balance that will improve gameplay whilst remaining fair and fun. I'm more of the last two types.
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