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Post by paltogue on May 16, 2014 19:03:13 GMT
Following Dave Morris's recent post over on the Fabled Lands blog on the 'lost' FF gamebook The Thief of Arantis (which became Twist of Fate/Once Upon a Time in Arabia), I dug out my VR copy of Down Among the Dead Men and gave it my first proper play. Very enjoyable (even though I ended up being tortured to death by 'the British'). I do miss the high fantasy elements - the slavering monsters, torturous dungeons, etc., but excellent writing and nice to feel that your decisions are meaningful (and no dice is good too). I can't help thinking a VR/CI Fighting Fantasy combo would be fun.
Oh, and I wrongly stated on the FL blog that I owned a copy of Twist of Fate. I don't. I was mixing it up with Coils of Hate and Green Blood, both of which I do own (and which, from memory aren't that brilliant). So I've ordered a new CI copy of it, along with CI editions of Necklace of Skulls (which I've never owned or read) and Heart of Ice, which I only have as the free PDF by Panurge Publishing. Looking forward to receiving them.
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Post by paltogue on May 16, 2014 19:16:07 GMT
Worth putting some links to Ed Jolley's excellent play-throughs of the VR books: Are there any others I've missed?
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Post by a moderator on May 16, 2014 23:42:07 GMT
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Post by paltogue on May 17, 2014 8:14:50 GMT
Ah, excellent, yes, I was going to track Per's down at some point too (for some reason the search function on your blog wasn't bringing up your 'Heart of Ice' play-through even though I was pretty sure you'd done one).
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Post by paltogue on May 17, 2014 8:39:56 GMT
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Post by a moderator on May 17, 2014 12:41:19 GMT
(for some reason the search function on your blog wasn't bringing up your 'Heart of Ice' play-through even though I was pretty sure you'd done one). Why didn't you use the index? There's a link to it from every page - the bit that says 'Looking for a specific gamebook? Click here' ETA: In case people are mistaking the index link for an attempt at selling gamebooks, I've just changed it to say 'specific gamebook playthrough'. Though, given that the index is one of the most frequently visited pages at the blog, some people must have got the point anyway.
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Post by paltogue on May 17, 2014 16:32:52 GMT
Why didn't you use the index? There's a link to it from every page - the bit that says 'Looking for a specific gamebook? Click here' ETA: In case people are mistaking the index link for an attempt at selling gamebooks, I've just changed it to say 'specific gamebook playthrough'. Though, given that the index is one of the most frequently visited pages at the blog, some people must have got the point anyway. Never noticed it before!
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Post by paltogue on May 19, 2014 12:25:20 GMT
Interesting that neither you nor Per have done a play-through or review of Twist of Fate. Is there any reason (e.g. rarity) for that other than you just haven't?
Oh, and I wonder if Per is still part of the online gamebook scene. I haven't heard tell of him in a long time.
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Post by a moderator on May 19, 2014 19:31:09 GMT
I haven't got that far yet, and I suspect that the copy of Twist Per should have may have fallen victim to the vicissitudes of international postage.
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Post by slloyd14 on May 20, 2017 22:26:13 GMT
Hello all! I decided to write a reboot of Coils of Hate, taking all the best bits, linking them together and adding my own bits. I obtained Mark Smith's permission to write it. What I have is a 564 section gamebook with almost no sudden deaths. You can get it FREEEE! You can find it at: www.rpgnow.com/product/212139/Coils-of-Hate
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Post by offm on May 24, 2017 15:10:31 GMT
Please post this on the sub reddit gamebooks it's desperately in need of good content
Sent from my SUNSET2 using proboards
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Post by slloyd14 on May 26, 2017 4:52:20 GMT
Please post this on the sub reddit gamebooks it's desperately in need of good content Sent from my SUNSET2 using proboards Done!
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Post by Charles X. on Jul 29, 2021 23:48:17 GMT
Following Dave Morris's recent post over on the Fabled Lands blog on the 'lost' FF gamebook The Thief of Arantis (which became Twist of Fate/Once Upon a Time in Arabia), I dug out my VR copy of Down Among the Dead Men and gave it my first proper play. Very enjoyable (even though I ended up being tortured to death by 'the British'). I do miss the high fantasy elements - the slavering monsters, torturous dungeons, etc., but excellent writing and nice to feel that your decisions are meaningful (and no dice is good too). I can't help thinking a VR/CI Fighting Fantasy combo would be fun. Oh, and I wrongly stated on the FL blog that I owned a copy of Twist of Fate. I don't. I was mixing it up with Coils of Hate and Green Blood, both of which I do own (and which, from memory aren't that brilliant). Ah, replying to a 6 year old post. I share your dislike of Green Blood, but I thought Coils Of Hate want half-bad. It had a vaguely pro-jew, anti-racism theme, mixed with gritty descriptions and gameplay, as I recall, and I found that fairly easy to relate to.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jul 30, 2021 6:36:43 GMT
Coils of Hate is the 'what-if' of a pogrom in Venice targetting the Jews, and with a supernatural angle to things. It's a memorable book for sure. Disturbing too, I thought.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 30, 2021 9:26:31 GMT
Coils of Hate is a good concept - a thinly-disguised allegory about Jewish persecution mixed with an idea from a Fritz Leiber short story about hate manifesting into a physical form. Gameplay-wise it's problematic though - so many times I've played it and had to quit due to some game-breaking bug. Really need to get round to checking out Stuart's fixed version.
Apart from a few continuity errors (day suddenly turning into night, the background not fitting with the pre-generated characters), Green Blood is much more playable and I love the melancholy atmosphere to it. I also disagree that it's linear, there's plenty of alternative ways through it. Never really understood the hatred it receives. It's not up there with Necklace of Skulls or Heart of Ice, but it's still very good IMO.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 30, 2021 19:39:24 GMT
Coils of Hate is a good concept - a thinly-disguised allegory about Jewish persecution mixed with an idea from a Fritz Leiber short story about hate manifesting into a physical form. Gameplay-wise it's problematic though - so many times I've played it and had to quit due to some game-breaking bug. Really need to get round to checking out Stuart's fixed version. Apart from a few continuity errors (day suddenly turning into night, the background not fitting with the pre-generated characters), Green Blood is much more playable and I love the melancholy atmosphere to it. I also disagree that it's linear, there's plenty of alternative ways through it. Never really understood the hatred it receives. It's not up there with Necklace of Skulls or Heart of Ice, but it's still very good IMO. Green Blood is linear in that you have to do perform certain tasks given to you and if you haven't, the book will keep beating you over the head with it until you do or die trying. There's no alternate events or different side quests (unless you count accidentally arriving at the Tower). You will do these set tasks if you want to succeed.
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Post by Charles X. on Jul 30, 2021 19:50:21 GMT
Coils of Hate is a good concept - a thinly-disguised allegory about Jewish persecution mixed with an idea from a Fritz Leiber short story about hate manifesting into a physical form. Gameplay-wise it's problematic though - so many times I've played it and had to quit due to some game-breaking bug. Really need to get round to checking out Stuart's fixed version. Apart from a few continuity errors (day suddenly turning into night, the background not fitting with the pre-generated characters), Green Blood is much more playable and I love the melancholy atmosphere to it. I also disagree that it's linear, there's plenty of alternative ways through it. Never really understood the hatred it receives. It's not up there with Necklace of Skulls or Heart of Ice, but it's still very good IMO. The reason I wrote Green Blood seemed linear was because of the many instant deaths, and riddles which could lead to instant deaths. Necklace Of Skulls is pretty linear if you want to get the 'proper' ending where you save your brother. I don't think people hate Green Blood but it never got the following of say Seige Of Sardath or Phantoms Of Fear (yes, both from another series). Ever since TLOTR made Fantasy pop culture people have preferred it when fantasy has been escapist and vaguely feelgood. So, my theory why people dislike Green Blood is, gamebook or not, the long reference count and paragraphs, absence of dice, and criticism of industry, doesn't fit people's expectations. I'm a huge fan of Watership Down, which has similar themes (minus the magic); apparently people relate more when cute little animals are fighting men than 'elves'.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 30, 2021 21:31:01 GMT
Green Blood is linear in that you have to do perform certain tasks given to you and if you haven't, the book will keep beating you over the head with it until you do or die trying. There's no alternate events or different side quests (unless you count accidentally arriving at the Tower). You will do these set tasks if you want to succeed. Yeah there's no side quests, but I seem to recall there is a bit of variety - how you get to Eleanor's Bower, how you deal with the elves, how much you interact with Valerian etc. Admittedly it's been quite a while since I last attempted it.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 30, 2021 22:31:19 GMT
Green Blood is linear in that you have to do perform certain tasks given to you and if you haven't, the book will keep beating you over the head with it until you do or die trying. There's no alternate events or different side quests (unless you count accidentally arriving at the Tower). You will do these set tasks if you want to succeed. Yeah there's no side quests, but I seem to recall there is a bit of variety - how you get to Eleanor's Bower, how you deal with the elves, how much you interact with Valerian etc. Admittedly it's been quite a while since I last attempted it. There are only two ways to get to Elanor's Bower; deliberately or accidentally, but if you survive, you will end up there. The choices are the only bit of variation you can get but due to the unforgiving nature of the book, you are left with making the right choice and progressing, or making the wrong one and reach an instant death. Despite the different choices you can make/Skills you use, the adventure is essentially Encounters 1-2-3-4-5-6 in that order, with 3 and 4 being the only switchable ones (I think). For a tale with nature as a subject, it's strange that the path you walk barely has any branches.
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Post by tyrion on Jul 31, 2021 19:06:41 GMT
Does the republished Once Upon a Time in Arabia have the illustrations in it by Russ Nicholson, or have they been cut?
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 31, 2021 19:23:28 GMT
Does the republished Once Upon a Time in Arabia have the illustrations in it by Russ Nicholson, or have they been cut? Doesn't have illustrations unfortunately. The originally titled Twist of Fate is also rather elusive and none of its artwork seems available online either.
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Magnus the Magnificent
Guest
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jul 31, 2021 19:28:58 GMT
Does the republished Once Upon a Time in Arabia have the illustrations in it by Russ Nicholson, or have they been cut? For some reason or another, they have been cut, all full-page and filler art is gone. There are some replacements by William Harvey.
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Post by tyrion on Jul 31, 2021 22:05:29 GMT
Thanks for the info. That's a shame about the illustrations.
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Post by linflas on Aug 1, 2021 6:57:28 GMT
I've got all of them, kind of... Megara Entertainment published a french translation of Once upon a time in Arabia, but Russ had lost all his originals. That what Megara's guy told me when he sent me high res scans to enhance them (they got blurry edge, because were scanned directly on a book I guess). I've started to enhance a couple of them but stopped when Megara Entertainment company went out of business.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 1, 2021 22:57:57 GMT
I've got all of them, kind of... Megara Entertainment published a french translation of Once upon a time in Arabia, but Russ had lost all his originals. That what Megara's guy told me when he sent me high res scans to enhance them (they got blurry edge, because were scanned directly on a book I guess). I've started to enhance a couple of them but stopped when Megara Entertainment company went out of business. Does your version have the original artwork?
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Post by linflas on Aug 2, 2021 21:06:42 GMT
These are Ross' but roughly scanned from a Twist of Fate original book.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 2, 2021 22:19:00 GMT
Could you share them please (here or on Facebook)? I've never seen the art for this book, only the rerelease version which looks like Google images.
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Post by linflas on Aug 3, 2021 21:21:54 GMT
PM sent.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 4, 2021 16:15:35 GMT
Wow, thanks! I wish they found a way to incorporate these. They really help bring that world to life.
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