The Gamebook Feed

[slloyd14]

Hi all!  I've updated the Gamebook Feed so that if anyone posts on a blog or website on my Feedly list (about 70 websites are there), then it will appear on the Feed with a hyperlink.

You can find the feed here:


thegamebookfeed.blogspot.co.uk/

You can find an excel file and a Feedly file with all the websites on here (I will update it occasionally).

There are about 10 posts a day (admittedly not all area bout gamebooks as some websites do not post exclusively about gamebooks), and some websites don't have an RSS feed as well  so it shows that there are tons of things going on about gamebooks.

Have fun!

[Deleted]

Is there seriously hype about gamebooks these days or are we all a dying race? I mean actually reading a book and not playing a gamebook app on the Ipod or cell? Is it still popular or are readers not interested anymore? The slow decline -the slow black death- of numbered interactive fiction. I know too many people who read tons of novels but will absolutely REFUSE to play/read something written by Ian or Steve because it's not proper literature. Would it kill someone to make another FF website filled with little romps? There was a time there were many of these websites now long deleted or ignored. I fear webmasters are wasting their time and money nowadays, so what's the point?

Are we suffering? Would you buy brand new gamebooks written by unknown authors or continue searching for Revenge of the Vampire at the local bookstore?

[kieran]

I must admit, I've been pretty wary about trying many of the new gamebooks. I know the Fantazine list quite a few new gamebooks every issue, but most don't really inspire me to seek them out. Perhaps if there were more reviews available, it would help - Demian's review of Zombocalypse Now convinced me to get a copy of that and I was very impressed with it.

[slloyd14]

That's an interesting discussion, guys. It seems that gamebooks are a lot better thought of in Italy and Eastern Europe. I review as many gamebooks as I can, but I don't have time for all of them. Between the new writers, old writers trying new stuff (Frankenstein for example), app developers turning gamebooks into apps and Windhammer, there are tons of ways that people are pushing the gamebook boundary. It just hasn't hit the mainstream...yet. I'm sure Alex will not say no to any reviews you write for him. The more the merrier.

[champskees]

Times have changed. Back in the 80s, gamebooks and board games were extremely popular. Society's rapid adoption of technology over the past two decades has made these forms of entertainment redundant.

We all know this. Gamebooks are not read by their intended audience anymore. They appeal to a very niche market. I imagine that even the majority of revenue from newer businesses such as Tin Man Games is coming from an older demographic. The younger generations coming through have access to superior alternatives and will not form a new market.

If you want to read a fantasy story, you read a novel from a respected and talented writer.

If you want to immerse yourself in a fantasy world where you play the role of an adventurer, you play a video game like Skyrim.

Even the idea of using dice has become obsolete. The only two types of people who are interested in gamebooks today are those with fond memories from their childhood and those unwilling to move into the 21st century. 

Adapt or die.

[yandros]

You should consider that possibly, the newer gamebook series have innovated on what was tired about the old series? I can only speak for myself that the Maelorum gamebook series is actually modeled to fit into an age of video games, as it uses a first person style navigation artwork, color printing, expansion cards, and simpler rules. Also, lots of reviews for it that I will post below. Now as for is this a dying genre? Yes it is. The fact is that the younger generation are not catching on like we all did. The only hope there is, is with the innovations of the newer series, trying to pump fresh blood into the genre, and I hope that we all get our support out to those people, because that is the future.

What reviewers say:

Tenkars Tavern Blog

www.tenkarstavern.com/2013/04/a-complete-kickstarter-maelorum-epic.html

www.tenkarstavern.com/2013/07/a-kicking-ass-kickstarter-maelorum.html

Fighting Fantazine (See pg.99)

www.fightingfantazine.co.uk/FF11.pdf

The Trollish Delver

www.trollishdelver.com/2012/11/preview-maelorum-gamebook.html

"HOLY. CRAP. Will... my books arrived a couple of days ago... the word "epic" only begins scratching the surface."

"Your book is the best adventure gamebook I've ever EVER read... And the package was better than perfect... this is my first "received" Kickstarter, and it's a very good one, I'm really glad I helped making it real."

"I just got Maelorum a day or two ago and just about every second of my free time has been invested in it since. I'm not going to make any definite judgment yet, but this may be one of the best adventures I've seen in a gamebook yet."

"first impressions leave me impressed. The paper quality, the production values, the colour illustrations, the sheer amount of text... It truly is a labour of love."

"Got my book a week ago or so. To be honest I was really surprised (positively) about the amount of content in it! It'll take me a while to actually have enough time to complete it with my current work load, but I'm really happy already with it. Thanks for a great product Will!"

"Received mine over here in Singapore last Friday. Perfect and what a beautiful book it is!"

[marcdangerousworlds]

Is the intended audience these days teens? I don't think so. Most of the new stuff I've read either takes on a more mature aspect, or tips a conspiratorial nod towards to  it's past foibles. Gamebooks are no longer going to sell millions of copies - we know this. By the same token there is certainly a small collection of dedicated fans to support it, and support the genres movement towards new series and products. I would that, of course, but then I see it as a nostalgic niche, and I revel in that. Spotty kid playing Skyrim rather than reading my book? That's something I have to accept as a fact of life.

[yandros]

There is no denying the market is 30+, however every teen who finds out about chooseable path books gets hooked or at least has a high interest. The issue is getting out in front of the target audience. No you cannot compete with the gloss and shine of a video game, modern marketing is cost-prohibitive, and most readers may not see a gamebook as worthy literature. The demographic begins to shrink and shrink the more you look at it. What we have now, in this Silver-Age, if you will, is a nostalgia market. So teens are finding these books through parents mostly who are active on kickstarter or who hand down old copies. I would go as far to say it is not just Gamebooks but all books that are on the endangered species list. It's not all gloom and doom though. Everything old becomes new again. Look at the appeal of old-school video games to the younger generation. Something similar could happen in reading or gaming.

[paltogue]

Has anyone here played Maelorum? I'd be interested to hear your views (as I think we're a kind of traditional gamebook audience). Oh, and is it possible to purchase it in the UK?

[kieran]

If you want to read a fantasy story, you read a novel from a respected and talented writer.

If you want to immerse yourself in a fantasy world where you play the role of an adventurer, you play a video game like Skyrim.

Hmm I dunno. Surely there are kids who like to read but also like the idea of changing the story themselves? I've never felt the same experience coming from a video game as from a gamebook.

[The Editor (Alex B)]

Sept 23, 2014 23:01:49 GMT champskees said:

If you want to immerse yourself in a fantasy world where you play the role of an adventurer, you play a video game like Skyrim.
Even the idea of using dice has become obsolete. The only two types of people who are interested in gamebooks today are those with fond memories from their childhood and those unwilling to move into the 21st century.

And yet, as a teacher of primary-aged students (5-12yrs), I've had the books in my room and if you show a class how to use them at least 6-7 of them will not only read one, but more than one. I just had an 11yr girl borrow Caverns of the Snow Witch from my classroom to take home and play over the holiday break.

I think it is an imagination thing. If you have a good imagination, a gamebook can be pretty expansive. If you need everything done for you, only a computer game will suffice.

[deadshadowrunner]

Sept 28, 2014 2:26:19 GMT The Editor (Alex B) said:

I think it is an imagination thing. If you have a good imagination, a gamebook can be pretty expansive. If you need everything done for you, only a computer game will suffice.

Profound words indeed!

[paltogue]

Sept 28, 2014 2:26:19 GMT The Editor (Alex B) said:

And yet, as a teacher of primary-aged students (5-12yrs), I've had the books in my room and if you show a class how to use them at least 6-7 of them will not only read one, but more than one. I just had an 11yr girl borrow Caverns of the Snow Witch from my classroom to take home and play over the holiday break.

I think it is an imagination thing. If you have a good imagination, a gamebook can be pretty expansive. If you need everything done for you, only a computer game will suffice.

I for one have never been able to get my imagination fired by a computer game in the way I can by a book. I don't think that's just a generational thing.

[champskees]

There, there.

Pascal once said that people almost always develop their beliefs on the basis of what they find attractive.

I love gamebooks too. Hell, all I do here is post solutions for them. I also like tabletop RPG's and reading fantasy novels, just like most of you do.

But the evidence is overwhelmingly apparent. There is definitely an inverse relationship between gamebook and videogame sales over the past three decades. The reason for this happening is that videogame businesses have encouraged innovation and aimed for consistent improvement since day one. Other forms of entertainment (gamebooks included) have not. Many of you seem to deny this in dogmatic fashion. I have mulled over what everyone has written, these are my thoughts. Again my intention is not to be offensive but I feel the need to examine other possibilities. I also like a good laff.

Yandros: You should consider that possibly, the newer gamebook series have innovated on what was tired about the old series? I can only speak for myself that the Maelorum gamebook series is actually modeled to fit into an age of video games, as it uses a first person style navigation artwork, color printing, expansion cards, and simpler rules.

Yandros is suggesting that gamebooks should copy elements from video games in order to make them more competitive with the video game market. Similar to putting a screen on a typewriter to better compete with PC's.

Marc: Gamebooks are no longer going to sell millions of copies - we know this. By the same token there is certainly a small collection of dedicated fans to support it, and support the genres movement towards new series and products. I would that, of course, but then I see it as a nostalgic niche, and I revel in that.

Marc disagrees with the description of the target market but otherwise agrees completely.

Kieran: Hmm I dunno. Surely there are kids who like to read but also like the idea of changing the story themselves? I've never felt the same experience coming from a video game as from a gamebook.

Many video games allow for choice, and the choices are often much more dynamic and meaningful. Gamebooks are limited to a set number of choices due to the limitation of paragraphs.

There may be some kids who are interested, but unfortunately we can only make a suggestion here as there is no evidence other than your anecdote. There are still people enjoying movies using VCR's. It is still a redundant device.

The Boss: And yet, as a teacher of primary-aged students (5-12yrs), I've had the books in my room and if you show a class how to use them at least 6-7 of them will not only read one, but more than one. I just had an 11yr girl borrow Caverns of the Snow Witch from my classroom to take home and play over the holiday break.

Anecdotal evidence from a small sample size. In terms of teaching pedagogy, videogames's (vg's) offer students a chance to interact in a variety of ways, allowing for students with different styles of learning to engage and learn. Vg's work better according to Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences and Bloom's Taxonomy in terms of differentiation. Vgs integrate video, audio, images and text. Some even offer kinesthetic elements and communication tools. Gamebooks offer only images and text. Personally I feel developing gamebook resources would be a step backwards compared to the development of interactive electronic resources. Again, the leading educational researchers and developers agree with this. When is the last time you saw an educational gamebook? <------market opportunity haha

The Boss: I think it is an imagination thing. If you have a good imagination, a gamebook can be pretty expansive. If you need everything done for you, only a computer game will suffice.

In terms of imagination, most gamebooks are still very limiting and controlled. This is nothing like a DM run D&D style game where your creative mind can take you anywhere. Not even close. I would suggest that an original, thought provoking book can most definitely stimulate the mind. But so can an original, thought provoking video game. Look at Planescape, Baldurs Gate 2, Uplink (seriously check this out) - all great stories, creative, lots of opportunities to play the game your way, and dynamic text choices.

My point is not that all videogames are better than all gamebooks. My point is that a structured, well written novel should deliver a more cohesive and developed story than one from a gamebook, and that a video game program has greater potential to realize than that of a gamebook.

In short, whatever a gamebook system can do, a vg program can do better, in literally every way. You would be factually incorrect to suggest otherwise.

[paltogue]

Even so, I don't think I have ever had my imagination sparked by visual media (e.g. film, TV, computer games) to the same degree as when I read, whether it be a gamebook, novel, history or whatever. I really do think the two work in completely different ways. I can't be alone in this.

[sylas]

Oct 1, 2014 6:13:38 GMT champskees said:

My point is not that all videogames are better than all gamebooks. My point is that a structured, well written novel should deliver a more cohesive and developed story than one from a gamebook, and that a video game program has greater potential to realize than that of a gamebook.

In short, whatever a gamebook system can do, a vg program can do better, in literally every way. You would be factually incorrect to suggest otherwise.

I can't agree to this. Sure, a Videogame can create a better system structurally and visually but it still leaves NOTHING to the imagination. A Gamebook, on the other hand, allows the reader to expand his mind to mentally visualise what is happening and what might happen next. A VG has already done the thinking for you.

A well written gamebook such as House of Hell can generate far more atmosphere than a VG where once the graphics and sound have stopped surprising you, the threat level just stops. But a gamebook can continue to inspire horror long after you've gotten past the initial stages. It isn't the visuals or music that scares you; it is yourself. The further away horror is, the less scary it becomes. For a horror-based VG you feel safe with your mouse or control pad to guide your character through the unknown terrors ahead. If those horrors catch up with you, your character dies, suffers horribly etc. but all you do is continue from your save point and do it better next time. No sweat. With House of Hell, the horrors it makes you imagine happen all in your mind, and you don't get closer than that. The fact that it is a book and not a screen puts you instantly into the right mindset. When you turn the page, YOU decide if you want to face those horrors. It doesn't matter if your character is the bravest person in the world, it is you who makes the decisions. The feeling here is distinctly different and is more satisfying than the pushing of buttons for an outcome.

A gamebook's versatility may be limited by it's number of paragraphs but inspires through it's creativity. Gamebooks inspire a thousand paths; videogames show you exactly what those paths are. However advanced technology can be, it is still limited. Imagination is limitless.

[The Editor (Alex B)]

Oct 1, 2014 6:13:38 GMT champskees said:

Anecdotal evidence from a small sample size. In terms of teaching pedagogy, videogames's (vg's) offer students a chance to interact in a variety of ways, allowing for students with different styles of learning to engage and learn. Vg's work better according to Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences and Bloom's Taxonomy in terms of differentiation. Vgs integrate video, audio, images and text. Some even offer kinesthetic elements and communication tools. Gamebooks offer only images and text. Personally I feel developing gamebook resources would be a step backwards compared to the development of interactive electronic resources. Again, the leading educational researchers and developers agree with this. When is the last time you saw an educational gamebook?

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you on the point that in most senses video games are better, just merely point out that the idea that "gamebooks across the board no longer appeal to the age group they were originally aimed at" isn't true. Yes, 99% of current gamebook readers will be 25+ in age, but they can still capture some children. Note that I said that out of a class of 25+ students, only 6-7 were interested/engaged enough to try a second gamebook. I'm fairly sure that the number drops off even further for trying a third gamebook.

I know of teachers who have used gamebooks in class, but this was used in small reading groups (5-8 kids) where they would make joint decisions on where to go. The idea was with the small chunks of paragraphs gamebooks were a good way to encourage reading. One teacher basically said they were using them to help students enjoy reading.

[sylas]

I've also started to introduce gamebooks to a few people at work. Strangely it's some of my Polish friends that have shown the most interest.

[champskees]

Oct 1, 2014 21:19:33 GMT The Editor (Alex B) said:

Oct 1, 2014 6:13:38 GMT champskees said:

The idea was with the small chunks of paragraphs gamebooks were a good way to encourage reading. One teacher basically said they were using them to help students enjoy reading.

I agree that gamebooks help promote literacy in children (among other things) - definitely did for me. I'll admit it's a valid point.

In fact I might have a look at that thread that talks about what gamebooks have done for people - fast tracked a lot for me.

Again, not trolling, just genuinely interested in how others think & feel.

Back to GA8.

Ciao.

[kieran]

Kieran: Hmm I dunno. Surely there are kids who like to read but also like the idea of changing the story themselves? I've never felt the same experience coming from a video game as from a gamebook.

Many video games allow for choice, and the choices are often much more dynamic and meaningful. Gamebooks are limited to a set number of choices due to the limitation of paragraphs.

There may be some kids who are interested, but unfortunately we can only make a suggestion here as there is no evidence other than your anecdote. There are still people enjoying movies using VCR's. It is still a redundant device

That's not really what I meant. Video-games can do choices, but novels cannot. Children still like reading novels rather than say watching movies. Gamebooks give that reading experience with the added dimension of choice. If video games are like interactive movies, gamebooks are like interactive novels. They are very different experiences.

I do agree that video-games have eclipsed gamebooks to an incredible degree, but they have not made them redundant any more than film has made novels redundant.

[champskees]

Oct 2, 2014 15:32:50 GMT kieran said:

I think we may have to agree to disagree, as we appear to have differing axioms of thought on what gamebooks actually are.

To me, the gamebooks that we are talking about are much closer to a game than a novel. There is usually a clear goal; you are playing to win, there are rules, records need to be kept and dice rolled. A gamebook for me is not anything like a novel, other than the fact it is in book form. It is much more comparable to boardgames and videogames. Boardgames do not sell anymore either due to the same reason I suggested: videogames are replacing them.

A novel to me is very different to a gamebook. There is no goal. You just read it. A 'Choose your own adventure' or the interactive goosebumps books are similar to a novel.

Another thing I might mention - videogames do not necessarily have to use video at all. There are plenty of text based adventures out there.

Maybe I am looking at it from a programming perspective. You could definitely code a FF adventure quite easily, and it would play much smoother - I reckon the Sorcery! app is a good example of this. Conversely, I think there is next to no benefit in coding a novel, other than to have it available digitally.

[kieran]

Well text-based video-games are probably even more niche than gamebooks these days!

A novel invariably reaches a dramatic climax. A gamebook requires you to guide it to that climax. However, both require the reader to picture what is happening, something that makes them fundamentally different from movies or videogames.

[offm]

Do not know if it is a nich market, but i can speak for the my site, the fact is that i have the double of people i had an year ago, so my toughts is that the curiosity about gamebooks is slowly growing again, (sure not the 80's) but gamebooks arouses imagination , and if i make a teen or even a grown up to read more my objective is fulfilled.

[dewfreak83]

With the popularity of mobile and tablet gaming on the rise in the past several years I think gamebooks have gotten a little life breathed into them. If you watch the rankings on the App Store (I don't watch Google Play closely), you often see a few gamebooks or interactive fiction apps in the top 150.

Furthermore, if you read some of the comments/feedback you see that the genre has picked up some of the younger crowd as well. The fact that there are a few companies that even specialize in putting this out give hints that the genre has some sort of sustainable customer base (even if it is mostly 30+). Working on my own digital gamebook, I hope that's true.