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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 21, 2017 18:48:27 GMT
Dave Morris is working on a gamebook with European themes with the working title 'Turn to Article 50'. He doesn't seem to be in two minds about whether Brexit is a good idea or not. Top comment: Andy Fletcher: And who said gamebooks were boring where you choose left or right?! |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2018 5:33:00 GMT
This week sees the publication of Can You Brexit? (but it's already out of stock). I've pretty much lost my sense of humour on this topic – especially now some politicians seem to be actively campaigning for the return of violence to Northern Ireland – but the reviews suggest it's quite funny. |
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Post by offm on Feb 20, 2018 10:09:22 GMT
It is an internal business so i won´t mess with it much , i just say British do not scease to surpise me with their sense of humour even on the darkest hours!!
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Mar 1, 2018 3:22:40 GMT
I won't keep posting about this, but:
1. The book is back in stock
2. Jamie Thomson popped up a page extract which hopefully appears below: 
3. There's a list of all the characters involved at the start which are clearly just pseudonyms for the current lot of UK MPs (plus a few others). Quite amusing for anyone following politics here. It reminded me that Tom Watson, who appears here suitably enough as 'Bob Owlbear', is also believed to have been pictured in Blood of the Zombies. I wondered how many people have been referred to in more than one gamebook (excluding author cameos) and if there's a record for the number of times...?
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aggsol
Wanderer
Bored...
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Lone Wolf
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Post by aggsol on May 26, 2018 16:30:50 GMT
I started it today and I am very amused by the dry British humor. I am no expert but so far everything has been described accurately afaik. I feared the topic to be very dry and boring but the light headed narration makes it very entertaining. As I don't live in the UK I don't always know who is who like Boris Johnson or the other UKIP guy (Nigel Something?). I am also unsure about the check boxes within the book. I will have to make my own memo pad as I don't like writing in my books :-)
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Jul 7, 2018 18:17:24 GMT
NEWSFLASH – Can You Brexit? IS FREE ON KINDLE THIS WEEKEND. (See Dave Morris's tweet here.) By coincidence I was going to reply here anyway: I started it today and I am very amused by the dry British humor. I am no expert but so far everything has been described accurately afaik. I feared the topic to be very dry and boring but the light headed narration makes it very entertaining. As I don't live in the UK I don't always know who is who like Boris Johnson or the other UKIP guy (Nigel Something?). I am also unsure about the check boxes within the book. I will have to make my own memo pad as I don't like writing in my books :-) As I really dislike writing into my gamebooks I had to create my own Brexit memo pad because the section checkboxes are missing on the official one. Mabye someone else finds it useful. You can get the PDF here: Good show creating that memo pad. I haven't actually bought this yet – not sure what's delaying me except that I find it difficult to think about this stuff lightheartedly... Glad you're enjoying it anyway.  I thought I'd talk a bit more about the pseudo-names (just because I think they're clever) and who these people are. But I'm not sure how many people are that interested in me ranting about politics so I'll put some of this in spoilers. Boris Johnson is, bizarrely, the UK's Foreign Secretary (Conservative, not UKIP) – that is, he's the main person in charge of UK relations with all other countries. This is despite a long history of racist remarks and a famed lack of interest in being informed enough to do his job. A British woman remains imprisoned in Iran likely as a direct result of his being too lazy to read his notes before commenting on the case in public. He once supplied information to help a friend who wanted to have a journalist beaten up. Boris regularly has messy hair (seemingly by choice) which is presumably why his character is named 'Peter Strewel'. As you're German I'm sure you won't need the reference to Struwwelpeter explained. Nigel Farage is the several times leader of UKIP. He's never been an MP, despite trying several times, but is an MEP. He may have falsely conceded the referendum despite knowing Leave would win so that his hedge fund friends could make money shorting the pound. Recently he's been defending Trump's policy of taking the children of asylum seekers off them. Now a person of interest in the Mueller probe. He appears here as Colin Fungale. I'm not sure of the significance of that except that 'Colin' and 'Fungale' are near-anagrams of 'Nigel' and 'Farage'. Jeremy Hunt is the Health Secretary. He is despised by doctors for cheerily insisting that the NHS becomes a 'truly 7-days-a-week service' without any additional funding for eg more doctors. Hunt's name is natural rhyming slang for c*** – so natural in fact that some newsreaders have accidentally called him 'Jeremy C***' on air. He's called 'Jay Arthur' here. 'J Arthur' is old rhyming slang – short for 'J Arthur Rank' which rhymes with w***. Michael Heseltine was once deputy Prime Minister under John Major. Before that he was in Margaret Thatcher's cabinet and his leadership challenge brought her time as PM to an end. He has always been strongly pro-European and views Boris Johnson with particular contempt. Heseltine appears here as Jonathan Leonine. Aside from rhyming with Heseltine, the word means 'lion-like'. Heseltine's fair hair was sometimes compared to a lion's mane. John Humphreys is a broadcaster, here with the name 'Bill Appleby'. The UK's most famous satirical show on politics Yes, Minister had a character named 'Humphrey Appleby' though he was a civil servant, not a broadcaster. Humphreys – who some people think is a little too keen on Brexit to be a neutral broadcaster – argues with politicians on the Today (radio) programme – listed here as 'Now Then'. 'Now then' might be taken as giving time specifications as 'today' does, but it's also a way of getting people's attention and starting something serious like an argument. Eg "Now then, let's talk about these trade deals." Andrew Marr is another broadcaster, here represented as 'Martin Mugglemore'. He presents a morning political (TV) programme under his own name. The equivalent show before he took over was Breakfast with Frost, which is presumably why it's represented here as 'Feeding Time'. David Davis, long time eurosceptic (though not the craziest) is in charge of negotiating the UK's exit from the EU. He is represented here as 'Dennis Dent' (note: for both their two names are almost the same). Liam Fox is the International Trade Secretary. He is a disgraced former Defence Secretary who had to resign in 2011 because he let his mate, a lobbyist with no government role or security clearance, into many sensitive meetings with diplomats and defence contractors. The fact he returned to the top table so fast (or at all) is extraordinary. He appears here as Leslie Barkwell. Foxes can bark and so can former Defence Secretaries. I'm sure you know who Donald Trump is(!) and I won't offer any opinions on him – where would one begin? He appears as Dumpster P Windrip here. The word 'trump' can be used to mean fart in the UK (probably relating to the sound a trumpet makes). Other ways of saying this are 'break wind' and 'let rip'. That's enough for now. |
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Post by vastariner on Jul 7, 2018 19:53:57 GMT
The Windrip is surely a reference to Buzz Windrip, a populist know-nothing who becomes President of the US in the Sinclair Lewis novel It Can't Happen Here. Which starts with Windrip lying his way to an election and ends with something like Gilead in The Handmaid's Tale.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Jul 8, 2018 2:27:45 GMT
The Windrip is surely a reference to Buzz Windrip, a populist know-nothing who becomes President of the US in the Sinclair Lewis novel It Can't Happen Here. Which starts with Windrip lying his way to an election and ends with something like Gilead in The Handmaid's Tale. Ah. That does seem rather convincing.  So basically it turns out that I'm the sort of guy who misses literary allusions and tries to explain them as fart jokes.  It reminds me of someone on the old IMDB forums before they were shut down who somewhat misunderstood the cake scene in The Matrix: Reloaded – especially the moment the viewer drifts, digitally, between the woman's legs and sees an internal explosion. The poster maintained – earnestly, for pages and pages – that the Merovingian's cake had given her terrible flatulence and that was why she had to run off to the toilet. It makes it very hard to understand why he then follows her there. Anyway, I like to think that Morris and Thomson were at least aware of the meaning of the words when selecting that name. Humour me, people. |
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aggsol
Wanderer
Bored...
Posts: 93
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Post by aggsol on Jul 8, 2018 17:36:59 GMT
Hahaha. Thank you guys for the detailed infos on the characters!
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Jul 9, 2018 4:17:24 GMT
'Dennis Dent' has just quit by the way. Not sure what you're supposed to do if that happens in the book.  My guess is we'll be hearing only too much from Strewel, Barkwell, Noysom-Reek (Jacob Rees-Mogg) and Thomas Tode (Michael Gove) in the next few days... |
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kieran
Baron
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 9, 2018 15:31:07 GMT
Looks like "Peter Strewel" is the latest rat to flee the sinking ship.
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Post by Dave Morris on Jul 10, 2018 11:25:03 GMT
Brilliant analysis of those names. I'd just like to say that Windrip is swiped from It Can't Happen Here, but Jamie and I meant it as both literary homage *and* a fart joke :-)
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,453
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 12, 2018 8:28:17 GMT
Finally gave this a go. My attempts to turn Gamebook Theresa May into a Lexiteer didn't go too well - She ended up losing a leadership vote - but hey at least she can go with her head held high which I reckon is better than what's going to happen to Actual Theresa May. I think I'd enjoy this book more if I could play as Barry Scraggle. Still, it is amusing and well designed. Sometimes not being able to do what I wanted to do and having to choose between bad options was a bit frustrating but I suppose that's gamebooks for you. |
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Post by a moderator on Jul 12, 2018 18:38:20 GMT
Sometimes not being able to do what I wanted to do and having to choose between bad options was a bit frustrating but I suppose that's gamebooks for you. That's politics for you. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Jul 14, 2018 2:24:47 GMT
Brilliant analysis of those names. I'd just like to say that Windrip is swiped from It Can't Happen Here, but Jamie and I meant it as both literary homage *and* a fart joke :-) Cheers – and thanks for letting me know I wasn't alone in that! |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 22, 2018 14:09:23 GMT
This is arguably off-topic, but here's a pic of Ian Livingstone on the march for a second EU referendum:  (original tweet here) |
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jan 6, 2019 13:40:49 GMT
There's a free online pdf with hyperlinks here for anyone interested. Haven't read it yet but am looking forward to it. |
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 29, 2021 22:13:14 GMT
In CYBWBB, you can decide to have a 2nd Brexit Referendum and it goes ahead, where in the actual world scraping together enough MPs for it to pass is would be as tough as getting the preferred outcome (even without May's snap election). I think Nigel Farage \ Colin Fungale wouldn't win a House Of Commons seat before pigs fly, as after 7+ attempts his polling seems to be maxed out at 35%. More realistic to have a northern city vote his party candidate in, he could be called Derek Steel or something. Like D. Cameron, D. Morris overstates the influence UKIP has (Nigel Farage's divisive personality and rhetoric probably swung more people to Remain than Leave).
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kieran
Baron
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 30, 2021 10:19:01 GMT
In CYBWBB, you can decide to have a 2nd Brexit Referendum and it goes ahead, where in the actual world scraping together enough MPs for it to pass is would be as tough as getting the preferred outcome (even without May's snap election). I think Nigel Farage \ Colin Fungale wouldn't win a House Of Commons seat before pigs fly, as after 7+ attempts his polling seems to be maxed out at 35%. More realistic to have a northern city vote his party candidate in, he could be called Derek Steel or something. Like D. Cameron, D. Morris overstates the influence UKIP has (Nigel Farage's divisive personality and rhetoric probably swung more people to Remain than Leave). One of Can You Brexit's issues is that it can be quite frustrating if you disagree with the authors on how things would go following certain decisions. It's easy to accept authorial fiat in a fantasy setting where the author makes the rules of his/her world - we're unlikely to think "hey, I don't think the red dragon would really have roasted me for failing to guess the answer to its riddle". But in a real world setting that is closely mirroring actual events, we're far more likely to get annoyed if things don't pan out how we feel they would. Both authors were very vocal on their political views on Twitter and to be honest I disagreed with their analysis quite a few times so I found the book more frustrating than I imagine someone who 100% agrees with their analysis would. That's not really a fault with the authors themselves, I imagine if I were to write a similar book where things panned out following my own analysis, there would be plenty of people equally frustrated. I think it's just an unavoidable problem with a political gamebook - and maybe a good reason why they are are rare in the genre. In Morris and Thomson's defence, when CYBWBB was written, there were a lot of pro-EU MPs in Parliament. If May had backed a second referendum, Corbyn would have been under immense pressure to do likewise and it could have been enough for a second referendum to take place - whether it would have resulted in a rejection of Brexit by the electorate is another matter. As for Farage/Fungale, I think he only ends up doing well if you take the Tories too far down the pro-EU route. While both pro-EU, Cameron and May were always careful to placate the anti-EU element within the party which limited Farage's success. |
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Sept 30, 2021 18:01:16 GMT
Both authors were very vocal on their political views on Twitter and to be honest I disagreed with their analysis quite a few times so I found the book more frustrating than I imagine someone who 100% agrees with their analysis would. That's not really a fault with the authors themselves, I imagine if I were to write a similar book where things panned out following my own analysis, there would be plenty of people equally frustrated. I think it's just an unavoidable problem with a political gamebook - and maybe a good reason why they are are rare in the genre. Agree with you. I admit I have still not read it, and may not do so for a while yet, really. A gamebook focussing on deeply controversial contemporary politics, (Brexit, the Troubles in Northern Ireland, American elections and politics 2016 onwards) is one where many people have taken sides. The sorts of things being openly spouted and attempted as a result of the Brexit vote and what followed are not going to be forgotten for a while. Wounds ran deep, and feelings ran high. If the author of such a book are on side 'x' and openly support side 'x', then they've potentially lost a lot of readership from side 'y'. How far back you'd have to go before not running into controversy like this I don't know, and again it would depend on the subject. The Miner's Strike? The Russian Revolution? The French Revolution? The Thirty Years War? The Hundred Years' War? The Babylonian Empire of Hammurabi? Did you see on Youtube: Dave Morris: Fabled Lands Interview. At time 32:47 to 36:04 he speaks about this book, and he doesn't mince his words about how it was dealt with by the publishing companies! I'm cheering him on there! I think the book deserved to be better treated even if I'm not in lockstep with his politics. |
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Post by philsadler on Sept 30, 2021 19:31:17 GMT
This is arguably off-topic, but here's a pic of Ian Livingstone on the march for a second EU referendum:
I didn't know he was anti-democratic.
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 30, 2021 19:45:08 GMT
This is arguably off-topic, but here's a pic of Ian Livingstone on the march for a second EU referendum:
I didn't know he was anti-democratic.
🐱. |
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kieran
Baron
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 30, 2021 21:33:09 GMT
Did you see on Youtube: Dave Morris: Fabled Lands Interview. At time 32:47 to 36:04 he speaks about this book, and he doesn't mince his words about how it was dealt with by the publishing companies! I'm cheering him on there! I think the book deserved to be better treated even if I'm not in lockstep with his politics. I understand his frustration because a lot of good books are turned down in favour of fairly uninspiring alternatives. I think though it's pretty much unavoidable when publishers are a commercial enterprise. A publishing executive is beholden to their shareholders and while they may have a lot of respect for a daring and innovative book, it's understandable that they won't risk their careers by taking a chance on it. |
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Post by CharlesX on Oct 1, 2021 18:46:10 GMT
Did you see on Youtube: Dave Morris: Fabled Lands Interview. At time 32:47 to 36:04 he speaks about this book, and he doesn't mince his words about how it was dealt with by the publishing companies! I'm cheering him on there! I think the book deserved to be better treated even if I'm not in lockstep with his politics. I understand his frustration because a lot of good books are turned down in favour of fairly uninspiring alternatives. I think though it's pretty much unavoidable when publishers are a commercial enterprise. A publishing executive is beholden to their shareholders and while they may have a lot of respect for a daring and innovative book, it's understandable that they won't risk their careers by taking a chance on it. Possibly unavoidable but definitely counter-productive. I forget the number of publishers who rejected Harry Potter (15? 25?) just because it wasn't another Tolkien style adventure, when imho Harry Potter is pretty derivative anyway. As D. Morris points out they rush like idiots after some brave private has proven they can sell, and then make rip-off shovelware of that (Divergent being the best example). |
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,453
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Oct 1, 2021 20:16:00 GMT
Possibly unavoidable but definitely counter-productive. I forget the number of publishers who rejected Harry Potter (15? 25?) Hindsight is 20/20 though. For every Harry Potter there's probably thousands of books just as good that flopped. |
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 26, 2022 12:21:50 GMT
Perhaps there could be a sequel to Can You Brexit in which you play the Tory leader with the poisoned chalice of leadership after Boris Johnson, amidst the cost of living crisis, and with Labour under the boring-but-effective Keir Starmer? I've read polls which say most Tories would prefer Boris Johnson back given the choice between him, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, while some 45% of the public would prefer neither candidate to Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak. You can be neither candidate.
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 15, 2023 17:37:20 GMT
Has Dave Morris mentioned whether he will be writing another gamebook along similar lines to CYBWBB, or does anyone know of any gamebooks with any similar themes (that is adult, without being pastiche or porn) as the only one know of is Kim Newman's Life's Lottery which I think is OK\good but not amazing? That's the way I feel about Can You Brexit?, I couldn't get into it not only because I don't think the world of the author or his politics but also because of the heavy notekeeping the gamebook requires, combined with some long stretches of information Q&A with little action, at the same time I think it's very much an interesting concept, and more than twice I could enjoy some of the things in the gamebook.
I think the concept has been better dealt with in the teen-orientated Way of the Tiger Overlord! (far too briefly I know) and God Game video games such as Civilization, I suspect the author's intent was never to compete with fast-action such as one would experience on PC.
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 1, 2024 21:11:57 GMT
Visiting Demian's gamebooks site as I sometimes do I came across both this abridged and multi-paragraph negative review by 'Shadeheart' which I feel discusses what you might call some elephant in the room gamebooks.org/Series/2077/Show. Shadeheart's points resonated very much with me in that I feel both the technical aspects of CYBWBB are complicated and unexciting and the homour elements seem very flat and very forced. CYB reminds me of an average episode of Yes, Minister, which doesn't have funny jokes and is boring and unspontaneous (imo). Political humour (like most) relies on the writer both finding interesting and relatable points as well as connecting with the audience by making these points in a way that will appeal beyond just people who'd tend to agree with you. |
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Post by a moderator on Feb 2, 2024 0:34:11 GMT
The review seems to be guilty of the classic 'the jokes do not appeal to my sense of humour: therefore nobody will find it funny' misconception.
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