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Post by stevendoig on Apr 11, 2020 22:14:33 GMT
Yes, its come to that!
For a couple of years now I had ideas for a novel but the drive was not there... Then the Lockdoon began and I decided to adapt it for a gamebook.
I've whittled down the mechanics to make it simpler - no dice whatsoever.
Codewords are in use a lot, and you would need to note down items collected etc.
I'm enjoying it a lot, I've reached a good place where I might end it and start afresh with a new book in a saga of sorts.
Questions and observations - Its only 18,000 words, and 170 references - is this short, taking into account the lack of dice roll options? I'm guessing an FF book possibly wouldn't extend much beyond 200 references if there were no dice roll - i.e luck & skill tests etc.
I am on record here disliking 'hub worlds' - however, I ended up using them myself, without realising it as it is a great way of keeping everything tidy whilst allowing for a lot of choice!
I started in the middle with a rough idea of what was happening and only now, on my 3rd draft did I actually write out a beginning and end!
Most importantly, if I post the lengthy background section would some of you read it and leave constructive criticism?
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Post by Peter on Apr 12, 2020 0:55:46 GMT
Short answer: yes. Feel free to post it, I will read it.
Hub deigns are probably easier to manage. With a branching-path model you would need to keep track of what items/information is gained on the different pathways, and what things are mutually exclusive, etc.
If you are planning to start publishing books and making thousands of dollars, you will need to make them longer than 170 refs. Otherwise, length is not a big issue.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 12, 2020 10:11:15 GMT
I'd read it.
170 refs seems very short unless this is just to 'test the waters'. FF books probably use about 40-70 refs for Tests, definitely not as much as you think. I recommend reading Dave Morris's Critical IF/Virtually Reality series to plan out these diceless adventures. He has a similar style to what you're describing.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Apr 12, 2020 14:45:07 GMT
Good going Doigy. 170 refs sounds fairly short for a gamebook, but not necessarily too short to be good. I'll have a read and comment if you think that will help.
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 12, 2020 16:12:50 GMT
thanks for comments a'body! i've taken the comments 170 = short on board and as i posted earlier i had merely reached a good stopping point should i wish to continue a secondbook. however today i've continued where i've left off and reckon i should hit 250 easily. plenty more story after that but with a big change in focus so best left for a second book.
i genuinely never realised how fun and engaging creating my own world was!
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 810
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Apr 12, 2020 16:50:50 GMT
thanks for comments a'body! i've taken the comments 170 = short on board and as i posted earlier i had merely reached a good stopping point should i wish to continue a secondbook. however today i've continued where i've left off and reckon i should hit 250 easily. plenty more story after that but with a big change in focus so best left for a second book. i genuinely never realised how fun and engaging creating my own world was! I do not think that is amusing at all.
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 12, 2020 17:17:22 GMT
hm I mean, i know its tough just now, but what is that supposed to mean?
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Apr 12, 2020 17:22:53 GMT
hm I mean, i know its tough just now, but what is that supposed to mean? I think he means he saw the word 'amused' in the title and was hoping for some knock knock jokes.
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 12, 2020 17:31:14 GMT
He's not read my gamebook yet - for all he knows its a veritable laugh a thon. !
Unfortunately he wont because there is not even a mention of a necromancer in it.
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Post by schlendrian on Apr 12, 2020 17:43:56 GMT
I wouldn't read to much into vag's postings. Maybe it was supposed to be two sentences and he forgot a "." between "think" and "that", there's just no way to know. (Not supposed to be insulting, I just get irritated by posts like these)
On topic, that's a great way to pass the times right now! 250 references sounds like a good length for a first adventure
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Post by offm on Apr 14, 2020 21:54:04 GMT
Just curious how you make fighting without dice, and also want to read your gamebook.
Sent from my 5059D using proboards
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 15, 2020 6:44:00 GMT
Regards fighting - well there is none! - although there is a lot of running away!
Should be finished inserting the last few references this week, then it will be need a LOT of rewriting - I'm an ideas man, not so good at the writing part ,sadly.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 15, 2020 14:42:28 GMT
I'm an ideas man, not so good at the writing part ,sadly. I know just how you feel.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 15, 2020 14:49:29 GMT
thanks for comments a'body! i've taken the comments 170 = short on board and as i posted earlier i had merely reached a good stopping point should i wish to continue a secondbook. however today i've continued where i've left off and reckon i should hit 250 easily. plenty more story after that but with a big change in focus so best left for a second book. i genuinely never realised how fun and engaging creating my own world was! Do note that when I said 170 is short, I meant because you mentioned a lot of use with Code words which tends to demand more sections. There are many adventures that can be very short and still be complete, but those use such mechanics only sparingly. If you feel your story is already complete as written, do not feel inclined to fill any gaps with unnecessary events and encounters as that might dilute the experience. Only add or expand sections if you yourself feel it is needed.
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 16, 2020 18:25:39 GMT
Meant to play through 'Assassins' today but i got caught up with my gamebook. Interesting (for me), a character in it, who was at first purely incidental ended up making himself fairly pivotal and I had to re write chunks to insert him in more references the wee rascal! Anyway, I think I'm finished bar a lot of tidying up and redrafting etc. Anyway, below is the Background - be warned, I'm on my second draft now, and I KNOW it needs more work, but hopefully the premise and so on is clear. Let me know what you think.
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 16, 2020 18:26:05 GMT
HISTORY
“Right, listen up Sam. Yer Ten years auld noo and like me and my Father before me, its time for a wee history lesson. Pay attention, lots of people on the Mainland use symbols to pass the lesson on,, but here you hae tae memorise whit I'm saying and pass it on to your bairn's as best ye can.”
Your father sits back in his small wooden chair that he built himself. Made from wood from the forest of Montremon a few miles distant, like all islanders he waited until one of the infrequent traders made the journey across the causeway at low tide to provide the raw materials. You knew your lesson was today, your older sister had hers two years ago and would brag about how she knew more than you. You sit cross legged on the floor and listen attentively to your fathers words. Hopefully many answers will be revealed today. Your father surprises you by speaking like one of the people from the north rather than in the familair east coast dialect.
“A long time ago, no one knows how long, the world was full of people. Possibly too many, though we will never know. They built huge settlements from strange poor quality stone. They shared the world with other creatures that were like people but weren't. Some lived with them, some lived out in the wilds. The world was tired and the air was bad. Food was running out and people were at war. The other creatures became scarce and this (for some reason) became a problem. Something happened, we don't know what, but the effects are still felt to this day. Vast amounts of the land became poisoned, fit for nothing. The huge cities were destroyed, flattened ruins all that now remain. Strange isolated buildings from those days still remain, their purpose lost to us – like the Burning Light to the North West. The creatures disappeared completely, and people almost disappeared as well. Our numbers were so low that we lost our history and the means to live as we once did. However, perhaps this was a good thing as surely the Old Time was a bad system. We only have to look at the problems it created!
Things are improving, however, and the times of our fathers were worse than they are now. The Deadlands are slowly shrinking, and more areas are suitable for growing food than before. Our numbers are increasing again, though hopefully we won't end up suffering the same disaster that befell our ancestors.
The island life is the safest life. We are isolated from problems on the mainland – and there are problems there, don't let anyone convince you otherwise. Trade with our visitors, our foodstuffs are valuable, they will swap useful materials like wood and metals for them, but don't let them linger and don't be tempted to leave!”
You find all this very interesting. However, most of it you had worked out already, though you are very intrigued to learn that the Burning Light that you can see on a small hill a few miles off actually dates from the Old Time! However, you commit all that you can to memory as your Father asked and then, as you do every day, went outside to walk the perimeter of the island.
NOW
Eight years later and very little has changed in your life. You still walk the perimeter of the island, you assist with the planting and harvesting of crops, you watch as the Elders trade with the occassional visitor. This morning is like any other. You leave your small hut and prepare to walk the coastline again. It is a bright spring morning, the sun rising. You first look North West to the Burning Light , as always and marvel at how such an ancient structure can still be standing, and how the light from the top of it never goes out. You then look to the north. You are instantly horrifed to see that the ocean has been replaced by a horrible black sludgy mess. Whatever the substance is, it washes against the shoreline and sticks to the rocks and vegetation on the shore. You wonder if it will soak through the underlying soil and destroy the crops throughout the island.
You rush to your parents hut. They were almost ready for a day at the fields. Your Fathers expression changes to one of shock and disbelief when you tell him what has happened.
“Jings, son, I've heard of this. The Black Mess was a problem two or three generations ago. I mind my ain faither telling me. Apparantely it is a form of pollution fae the Old Time, and you are right, the very existence of our island is in peril. There is a solution to the problem, last time the Wise Folk of Dundy dispersed the mess and our crops were unaffected. Unfortunately, I've nae idea whaur Dundy is and how tae get there, other than that it is beyond an area of high ground to the south known as the Siddlies. Luckily, Bill, the auld trader has stayed here overnight. If anyone can help us, he can!”
You both make your way to the causeway where Bill is beginning to prepare for his journey back to the mainland. He is the most frequent Trader who visits the island and you all feel you know him quite well. He is an oldish looking man in smart clothing. He has a large two wheeled cart which is now full of produce from your island. He sees you arrive and it is obvious he has noticed the problem as he is at the coastline.
“Morning people” Bill says “Not a guid one, I can tell. I've heard about this Black stuff afore, not a welcoming sign. You'll want help cleaning it up! Ye probably ken the same as me – only the guid folk of Dundy can help ye! Now, I've never been as far as that, and I'm only heading west nowadays, but if someone wants tae come with me tae Montremon, I'm sure ye can find a Trader or two eventually who's heading that way – ye dinny want tae go that way alone.”
You father looks at you solemnly “Sam, it's a lot tae ask a young lad – but will ye go? Maist of us are either too old, or too young and besides , we need to save what crop we can in case the Black mess ruins everything.”
How can you refuse? Besides, a task such as this will open your eyes to a greater world. You briefly return to your hut and fill a rucksack with as much food as you can, along with your tinderbox.
NOW TURN TO 1
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 810
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Apr 16, 2020 22:03:08 GMT
Regards fighting - well there is none! - although there is a lot of running away! Should be finished inserting the last few references this week, then it will be need a LOT of rewriting - I'm an ideas man, not so good at the writing part ,sadly. An ideas man. Are you? Are you really?
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Post by philsadler on Apr 17, 2020 5:27:12 GMT
"wooden chair that he built himself. Made from wood"
We already know what it's made from!
"cross legged on the floor and listen attentively to your fathers words"
father's words [possessive]
"The huge cities were destroyed, flattened ruins all that now remain. Strange isolated buildings from those days still remain"
'Remain' repeated
"However, you commit all that you can to memory as your Father asked and then, as you do every day, went outside to walk the perimeter of the island."
Confusion of tenses [commit: present / went: past]
"You rush to your parents hut"
parents' [possessive]
"Your Fathers expression"
father's [possessive]
"Your Fathers expression changes to one of shock and disbelief when you tell him what has happened"
Can you have two expressions at once? Perhaps 'mingled with shock and disbelief'?
"oldish looking"
oldish-looking [compound adjective]
"two wheeled cart"
two-wheeled cart [compound noun]
I hope this helps!
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 17, 2020 5:30:32 GMT
hi phil . yes thanks that helps. i have a big job ahead of me i think.
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 17, 2020 5:33:55 GMT
Regards fighting - well there is none! - although there is a lot of running away! Should be finished inserting the last few references this week, then it will be need a LOT of rewriting - I'm an ideas man, not so good at the writing part ,sadly. An ideas man. Are you? Are you really? i've been on this forum for seven years and up till now i have loved it because it has been the only forum i frequent where people haven't pissed me off. so, please. leave my wee thread alone.
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 17, 2020 6:28:50 GMT
reading that last post back, i hope i didn't come across as a big baby.
Criticism i can easily handle, jings i know my limits with prose- but dropping a one line piece of trolling is not on.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Apr 17, 2020 15:16:19 GMT
reading that last post back, i hope i didn't come across as a big baby. You were more measured than I would have been. I'll just mention: it is possible to block people one this forum if you don't want to see their posts anymore.
Anyway, this has definitely got something Doigy. I've just given it a quick skim read so far. Phil has already mentioned most of what I was going to mention and more besides. Apostrophes aside, it's worth saying: sometimes writing stuff can be a bit of a 'too many cooks' thing where if you take on everyone's suggestions – even if all those people can write well – you might end up mucking around with it too much and get an odd mix of styles. This is especially likely if you're getting tips from sassenachs like myself. So don't feel you have to take on everything people suggest. Anyway I wondered about a couple of things: People don't often talk about "amounts" of land. It sounds a bit ambiguous between area and volume. How about 'tracts', 'acres' or 'expanses'? (No, I haven't just been at a thesaurus, why do you ask?) Perhaps overreaching, but would it be worth using a more threatening word than 'mess' if 'the Black Mess' is the great threat that provokes your adventure? 'Foulness' or 'blight' or something? I'll give it another read through this evening to see if there's anything else that jumps out.
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Post by daredevil123 on Apr 17, 2020 15:26:32 GMT
I agree with everything that's been said so far. A few sentences could do with being rewritten but I like the basic premise and the use of Scottish dialect.
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 17, 2020 17:51:08 GMT
Thanks for the comments, all useful! Lots to do, will keep me busy. Regards the use of the Scots language, glad you like - I've had to dial back a bit on it throughout so that people will understand without reaching for a dictionary! - it does serve a plot purpose later!
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Post by a moderator on Apr 17, 2020 19:29:38 GMT
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 810
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Apr 19, 2020 13:58:00 GMT
It was an insult i ve made? I did not realise it. But well, maybe it was. I know nothing these days. Offending others i offend myself.
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Post by stevendoig on Apr 24, 2020 16:21:28 GMT
Anyway. I'm getting there! I keep getting wee ideas or problems with the logic or plausibility of the scenario and keep tweaking it. another few days i reckon.
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Post by stevendoig on May 2, 2020 14:42:01 GMT
And it's done! 250 sections (already plans for a direct continuation) , 30,000 words.
That was hard work! Now to get my wife and son to proofread it and iron out bugs and most importantly see if they enjoy it. Then, well, I may indeed put it up on here!
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Post by a moderator on May 2, 2020 14:45:17 GMT
Looking forward to it.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 810
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on May 2, 2020 19:16:52 GMT
And it's done! 250 sections (already plans for a direct continuation) , 30,000 words. That was hard work! Now to get my wife and son to proofread it and iron out bugs and most importantly see if they enjoy it. Then, well, I may indeed put it up on here! A fan of Fighting fantasy gamebooks, who even works on gamebooks, and has a wife and a son? ? Wow!!!! Is that possible?? I always thought that was not compatible. Well, i have a girlfriend and daughter, but for me, it is not compatible at all!
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