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Post by tyrion on Jun 29, 2020 11:44:37 GMT
Last round both forest of doom and caverns of the snow witch were eliminated. How about a change when there are five books in each group left and combining two groups together? Just a thought.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 29, 2020 14:23:55 GMT
Getting tough now. Torn between three books here.
I really like the middle portion of Warlock (between the portcullis and the maze). But the early parts of the dungeon are very linear, and the maze is annoying. I do like the concept of the three keys though not necessarily their placement.
Island is also very linear but it's more engaging. It's a bit too combat oriented with little to stand in your way bar some tough fights and a scattering of penalties to make them tougher.
Scorpion Swamp is fun but very lightweight. You can breeze through it very quickly. Still it's a great way to spend a half hour.
I think I'm going to vote Warlock for now but may well change my mind.
As regards future votes, I quite like the current format but happy to go with the consensus if people want to combine groups.
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Post by dragontyrant on Jun 29, 2020 14:47:46 GMT
For me it's between Warlock and Scorpion Swamp. While Scorpion Swamp is super short I do like the three options given even if they aren't that different when it comes to the adventure itself. Warlock however as that bloody river and that dreadful maze that made me cheat so much as a child but at the same time the encounter with the cyclops is awesome, the dragon, discovering more about the warlock... Such a hard choice.
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Post by daredevil123 on Jun 29, 2020 14:48:09 GMT
I agree that this is getting harder. I'm happy with the current system of voting although we could probably get the polls finished more quickly if we combined groups.
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jun 30, 2020 1:03:15 GMT
A tough choice, but I voted for Island of the Lizard King because I find it to be a little too much of its time. Colonial adventurer uses indigenous knowledge to complete unrelated quest was already a well-worn trope in the 80s, but it wasn't necessarily unsalvageable for a gamebook. IotLK just used it in the laziest, most boring way possible.
For starters, the Headhunters should not have been uniformly aggressive and dangerous. If there was a way for you to win their trust in early encounters, you could have gained some insight into the mysterious island, foreshadowing your need to engage the Shaman. You should probably have learned about the Shaman’s existence from them. And it would make more sense and improve gameplay to get the feather clue from them too. The Shaman encounter was itself underwritten. With a little more effort, the Shaman encounter could have felt like the highlight of the book's opening acts and more salient to the third act's final battle. It would have been a nice touch to have a few Headhunters show up at the rendez-vous point to suggest that they too have some interest in battling the Lizard King’s forces.
As written, IotLK feels like it is just cataloging exotic stereotypes and not doing much else with them. That's too bad because maybe there was a little more potential there.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 30, 2020 6:49:55 GMT
For starters, the Headhunters should not have been uniformly aggressive and dangerous. If there was a way for you to win their trust in early encounters, you could have gained some insight into the mysterious island, foreshadowing your need to engage the Shaman. You should probably have learned about the Shaman’s existence from them. And it would make more sense and improve gameplay to get the feather clue from them too. The Shaman encounter was itself underwritten. With a little more effort, the Shaman encounter could have felt like the highlight of the book's opening acts and more salient to the third act's final battle. It would have been a nice touch to have a few Headhunters show up at the rendez-vous point to suggest that they too have some interest in battling the Lizard King’s forces. Raises an interesting point that I hadn't considered before. It's never really clarified who the shaman shamanises for. The headhunters? The pygmies? Some other people not encountered by the player (after all, the headhunters presumably prey on more peaceful tribes)?
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 30, 2020 17:55:00 GMT
If it’s local allies you want then the pygmies would make more credible and trustworthy allies than a tribe given over to the collection of people’s heads. Those heads don’t come off by themselves you know! It takes an effort. And I think I read somewhere in real life that it tends to have something to do with capturing the essence of the person’s very soul. I do not think I would WANT to be on the side of head-hunters and devotees of human sacrifice. Island of the Lizard King has a Devil’s Island feel to it. Escapees from the real Devil’s Island not only had the jungle’s perils to face, but shark-infested waters and then it’s gambling that the locals on the mainland won’t kill you or turn you in. The book is one of Ian Livingstone’s best and I see nothing lazy or boring about it at all.
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Post by stevendoig on Jun 30, 2020 19:14:25 GMT
Surprised Scorpion Swamp is getting votes here - I think it great! - Though possibly its a nostalgia thing? - I loved mapping it out when I was a wee laddie.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 30, 2020 19:23:39 GMT
Surprised Scorpion Swamp is getting votes here - I think it great! - Though possibly its a nostalgia thing? - I loved mapping it out when I was a wee laddie. Same here, Steven. The nostalgia thing is going to be strongest, perhaps, with the FF 1-10. But I am not even trying to discern whether it's nostalgia or analysis of the books now I'm an adult that's got me voting the way I am voting - I'm just going with an overall feeling, probably based on years-old memories. I am also deciding which way to vote ahead of opening the thread, lest I get swayed by public opinion. I am interested in others' opinions though, in particular your own, because you've played them all so recently...
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Post by Wilf on Jun 30, 2020 20:20:19 GMT
Now Starship Traveller is out of the way, there's no duff books in this round. There are, however, many classics, iconic titles, nostalgic memories, and combinations of the above. Scorpion Swamp is the only one that none of those descriptors apply to.
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Post by The Count on Jun 30, 2020 20:48:17 GMT
Surprised Scorpion Swamp is getting votes here - I think it great! - Though possibly its a nostalgia thing? - I loved mapping it out when I was a wee laddie. While in places the writing is a bit rushed, and the if you have been here before sections aren't fully used to their potential, Scorpion Swamp is FUN - something that can't be said of most FF books. As for what is not fun? Island of the Lizard King. I sometimes wonder if the dodgy internal illustration of the big bad was a dig at the real life Fire Island given how the rest of it seemed to be playing outdated stereotypes bingo of sorts...
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jun 30, 2020 22:55:09 GMT
For starters, the Headhunters should not have been uniformly aggressive and dangerous. If there was a way for you to win their trust in early encounters, you could have gained some insight into the mysterious island, foreshadowing your need to engage the Shaman. You should probably have learned about the Shaman’s existence from them. And it would make more sense and improve gameplay to get the feather clue from them too. The Shaman encounter was itself underwritten. With a little more effort, the Shaman encounter could have felt like the highlight of the book's opening acts and more salient to the third act's final battle. It would have been a nice touch to have a few Headhunters show up at the rendez-vous point to suggest that they too have some interest in battling the Lizard King’s forces. Raises an interesting point that I hadn't considered before. It's never really clarified who the shaman shamanises for. The headhunters? The pygmies? Some other people not encountered by the player (after all, the headhunters presumably prey on more peaceful tribes)? Judging by the illustrations, I think that the Shaman is a Headhunter. Like all the remaining books in this bracket, IotLK is not a bad gamebook in my eyes. I agree with bloodbeasthandler that the it’s-Devil’s-Island-and-there’s-no-escaping trope is well executed.
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Post by Peter on Jul 1, 2020 8:35:40 GMT
I agree, we've got rid of the poorer books. We're no longer voting for what we don't like, but what we like the least. All 7 books have a creative concept behind them, some of them are good at immersing you in the scene, some try something distinctly new. I'm going to pick one that is the least unique, so that if I had to eat it to survive I would still have 6 diverse stories/games to enjoy.
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Post by Peter on Jul 3, 2020 9:45:58 GMT
I agree, we've got rid of the poorer books. We're no longer voting for what we don't like, but what we like the least. All 7 books have a creative concept behind them, some of them are good at immersing you in the scene, some try something distinctly new. I'm going to pick one that is the least unique, so that if I had to eat it to survive I would still have 6 diverse stories/games to enjoy. Oops, I shouldn't have said "least unique" - things are either unique or they aren't, there are no degrees of uniqueness. Sorry to my former English teacher!
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Post by tyrion on Jul 4, 2020 21:11:49 GMT
Just curious, what is it about wofm that people don't like?
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Post by Wilf on Jul 4, 2020 21:26:03 GMT
Just curious, what is it about wofm that people don't like? I've got a feeling it's more about the quality of the other books in this round.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 4, 2020 21:42:13 GMT
Just curious, what is it about wofm that people don't like? The maze! But it's not a bad book by any means, it just not as good as the remaining others imo (with the caveat that I struggled to choose between it, Scorpion Swamp and Island of the Lizard King).
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jul 5, 2020 10:41:38 GMT
Just curious, what is it about wofm that people don't like? It's a bog standard dungeon crawl with a terrible maze thrown in.
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jul 5, 2020 13:47:19 GMT
WoFM may be suffering from the perception of having an underdeveloped story. Even the FF creators seemed to indirectly recognize this, as they ended up retconning the story multiple times over the years.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 810
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 5, 2020 16:26:30 GMT
WoFM may be suffering from the perception of having an underdeveloped story. Even the FF creators seemed to indirectly recognize this, as they ended up retconning the story multiple times over the years. Warlock of the Firetop Mountain is not a good book. Too many boxes and tasteless linearity. Not a good book at all.
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Post by The Count on Jul 6, 2020 1:14:48 GMT
The maze is frustrating and the fact that a few vital / useful items are found together making completion almost a formality takes a lot away from Warlock, especially if there is no nostalgic sentiment attached to it.
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