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Post by daredevil123 on Oct 5, 2020 17:04:34 GMT
I'm trying to make a list of FF books which had alternative or working titles different from their final ones. I've listed all the examples I can think of below:
FF1: Working title was The Magic Quest FF3: Published by Wizard as simply Forest of Doom FF10: Warlock version was called The House of Hell, US version called House of Hades FF12: Was simply called Assassin at one point FF14: Was called Dragon Master at one point FF17: Was originally listed as Superheroes FF18: Working title was The Aliens of Arcadion FF26: Working title was The Howling Tunnels; Puffin rejected Crypt of the Necromancer FF51: Originally going to be called Plague of the Undead FF58: Originally going to be called Curse of the Vampire, changed because of FF59 FF61: Could have been called Pirates of the Black Skull FF63: Planned at one point to have been called Eye of the Storm, changed because of FF60 FF65: Fans voted for final title over Escape from Zombie Castle FF66: I think it was once rumoured to be called The Demon Prince FF69: Initially announced as The Crystal of Storms
Please add any that I've missed. Do you prefer any of these to their official titles?
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Oct 5, 2020 17:55:50 GMT
I'm trying to make a list of FF books which had alternative or working titles different from their final ones. I've listed all the examples I can think of below: FF1: Working title was The Magic QuestFF3: Published by Wizard as simply Forest of DoomFF10: Warlock version was called The House of HellFF12: Was simply called Assassin at one point FF14: Was called Dragon Master at one point FF17: Was originally listed as SuperheroesFF18: Working title was The Aliens of ArcadionFF26: Working title was The Howling Tunnels; Puffin rejected Crypt of the NecromancerFF51: Originally going to be called Plague of the UndeadFF58: Originally going to be called Curse of the Vampire, changed because of FF59 FF61: Could have been called Pirates of the Black SkullFF63: Planned at one point to have been called Eye of the Storm, changed because of FF60 FF65: Fans voted for final title over Escape from Zombie CastleFF66: I think it was once rumoured to be called The Demon PrinceFF69: Initially announced as The Crystal of StormsPlease add any that I've missed. Do you prefer any of these to their official titles? Hadn't heard of some of these. Assassin is a bit rubbish considering you don't assassinate anyone. At least Space Assassin is half accurate! I was one of the few who voted for Escape from Zombie Castle - it's got a sort of B Movie vibe to it. Plague of the Undead is a pretty cool title though I like IotU too. I prefer Eye of the Storm to Stormslayer. I mean does he slay storms? Bit nonsensical. Pirates of the Black Skull is good but a bit too close to Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2020 18:23:21 GMT
I'm trying to make a list of FF books which had alternative or working titles different from their final ones. I've listed all the examples I can think of below: FF1: Working title was The Magic QuestFF3: Published by Wizard as simply Forest of DoomFF10: Warlock version was called The House of HellFF12: Was simply called Assassin at one point FF14: Was called Dragon Master at one point FF17: Was originally listed as SuperheroesFF18: Working title was The Aliens of ArcadionFF26: Working title was The Howling Tunnels; Puffin rejected Crypt of the NecromancerFF51: Originally going to be called Plague of the UndeadFF58: Originally going to be called Curse of the Vampire, changed because of FF59 FF61: Could have been called Pirates of the Black SkullFF63: Planned at one point to have been called Eye of the Storm, changed because of FF60 FF65: Fans voted for final title over Escape from Zombie CastleFF66: I think it was once rumoured to be called The Demon PrinceFF69: Initially announced as The Crystal of StormsPlease add any that I've missed. Do you prefer any of these to their official titles? Are we including things like "House of Hades" for FF10, as I believe it was dubbed for the God-fearing US market? I also prefer Escape from Zombie Castle. Edit: also perhaps The Demon Prince – possibly a bit generic but 'Port of Peril' has always seemed to lack a bit of punch. Maybe Pirates of the Black Skull too.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Oct 5, 2020 18:57:26 GMT
As far as I am aware, the majority prefer Escape from Zombie Castle because they were still hoping for Blood of the Mandrake. Blood of the Zombies pretty much shut down whatever chance there was of it being written because of the clashing titles. Similar to Eye of the Storm being shoved aside because of Eye of the Dragon I'm guessing. Thus, I'm certain the voting was rigged. But that's just me.
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Post by daredevil123 on Oct 5, 2020 21:26:29 GMT
Forgot about House of Hades - original post updated.
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Post by philsadler on Oct 6, 2020 8:27:56 GMT
Stormslayer is not a bad title but I love the idea of Eye of the Storm.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Oct 6, 2020 9:19:48 GMT
Forgot about House of Hades - original post updated. House of Hell is better. Perhaps the best title of the series.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Oct 6, 2020 19:23:41 GMT
Forgot about House of Hades - original post updated. I think there were some really odd variants in other countries/languages. Which country was it where Appointment with FEAR was retitled "Push Down the Cyborg"?
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Post by a moderator on Oct 8, 2020 13:56:22 GMT
The same one that changed Slaves of the Abyss to Monarch of Basement, IIRC. I think it was Japan, but I'm not sure, and Yahoo Groups no longer allows me to access the discussions where the list of quirky title translations came up, so I can't check.
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Post by dragonwarrior8 on Oct 8, 2020 14:10:08 GMT
Is the Japanese cover for Deathtrap Dungeon actually a real thing or was that a joke?
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Oct 8, 2020 16:33:28 GMT
Is the Japanese cover for Deathtrap Dungeon actually a real thing or was that a joke? They look real enough to me, dragonwarrior, or else a rather elaborate hoax!
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Post by dragonwarrior8 on Oct 8, 2020 18:55:19 GMT
Is the Japanese cover for Deathtrap Dungeon actually a real thing or was that a joke? They look real enough to me, dragonwarrior, or else a rather elaborate hoax! Man, those are something else. Haha! I hadnt seen the other two before. And to think we were worried about the Crystal of Storms cover! Nothing says children's book like that Deathtrap Dungeon one. I realize could be just par for the course in Japan but maybe just more fuel that these books really werent meant for kids? Several of the authors sure didnt seem to write them that way either.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Oct 9, 2020 0:10:16 GMT
Is the Japanese cover for Deathtrap Dungeon actually a real thing or was that a joke? They look real enough to me, dragonwarrior, or else a rather elaborate hoax! No, they were real. I used to see them in my local book shop.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Oct 9, 2020 0:16:29 GMT
The same one that changed Slaves of the Abyss to Monarch of Basement, IIRC. I think it was Japan, but I'm not sure, and Yahoo Groups no longer allows me to access the discussions where the list of quirky title translations came up, so I can't check. Slaves of the Abyss was translated as 奈落の帝王 ( Naraku no Teio) which is 'Emperor of the Abyss'. I'm not complaining about that. Sure, in addition to the bottom of hell, naraku can signify a trap cellar, but in this case it obviously doesn't, and 'Monarch of Basement' is just someone taking the piss out of the Japanese. My favourite translated title was Tyven med de Tusind Tricks, which is the Danish version of...
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Post by Wilf on Oct 9, 2020 7:33:38 GMT
...The Riddling Reaver?
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Blackheart
Squire
Formerly known as Symm. Razaak raised me from the dead.
Posts: 42
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by Blackheart on Oct 9, 2020 8:29:09 GMT
Forgot about House of Hades - original post updated. House of Hell is better. Perhaps the best title of the series.
The word 'hell' is deemed a profanity in the US - that is why it had to be changed.
Hypocrites at work...
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Post by a moderator on Oct 9, 2020 13:14:35 GMT
The same one that changed Slaves of the Abyss to Monarch of Basement, IIRC. I think it was Japan, but I'm not sure, and Yahoo Groups no longer allows me to access the discussions where the list of quirky title translations came up, so I can't check. Slaves of the Abyss was translated as 奈落の帝王 ( Naraku no Teio) which is 'Emperor of the Abyss'. I'm not complaining about that. Sure, in addition to the bottom of hell, naraku can signify a trap cellar, but in this case it obviously doesn't, and 'Monarch of Basement' is just someone taking the piss out of the Japanese. Thanks for the clarification. I apologise for having unwittingly perpetrated racist mockery.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Oct 9, 2020 16:43:02 GMT
Slaves of the Abyss was translated as 奈落の帝王 ( Naraku no Teio) which is 'Emperor of the Abyss'. I'm not complaining about that. Sure, in addition to the bottom of hell, naraku can signify a trap cellar, but in this case it obviously doesn't, and 'Monarch of Basement' is just someone taking the piss out of the Japanese. Thanks for the clarification. I apologise for having unwittingly perpetrated racist mockery. I don't think you need to apologize. I confess to mocking Japanese misuse of English (there's a hairdressers near where I live called Clear of Hair which always raises a chuckle). In this case I think the joke is on the people who thought that the first thing they came across in a Japanese-English dictionary was the one-and-only meaning of the word.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Oct 11, 2020 9:48:17 GMT
The same one that changed Slaves of the Abyss to Monarch of Basement, IIRC. I think it was Japan, but I'm not sure, and Yahoo Groups no longer allows me to access the discussions where the list of quirky title translations came up, so I can't check. Slaves of the Abyss was translated as 奈落の帝王 ( Naraku no Teio) which is 'Emperor of the Abyss'. I'm not complaining about that. Sure, in addition to the bottom of hell, naraku can signify a trap cellar, but in this case it obviously doesn't, and 'Monarch of Basement' is just someone taking the piss out of the Japanese.My favourite translated title was Tyven med de Tusind Tricks, which is the Danish version of... That 'translation' sounds like someone being deliberately obtuse and/or going for a laugh by picking the least appropriate word out of the dictionary and applying it. In reverse, it would be like saying the title 'Midnight Rogue' is to be translated as 'The Individual Bull Elephant of Twelve O'clock'. Or 'Moonrunner' becoming 'Bare Bum-showing Administrator' edit: I see you said as much in your last post which i'd not seen before commenting, the dangers of applying the first word out of the dictionary definition eh?
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Post by sleepyscholar on Oct 11, 2020 10:01:05 GMT
Slaves of the Abyss was translated as 奈落の帝王 ( Naraku no Teio) which is 'Emperor of the Abyss'. I'm not complaining about that. Sure, in addition to the bottom of hell, naraku can signify a trap cellar, but in this case it obviously doesn't, and 'Monarch of Basement' is just someone taking the piss out of the Japanese.My favourite translated title was Tyven med de Tusind Tricks, which is the Danish version of... That 'translation' sounds like someone being deliberately obtuse and/or going for a laugh by picking the least appropriate word out of the dictionary and applying it. In reverse, it would be like saying the title 'Midnight Rogue' is to be translated as 'The Individual Bull Elephant of Twelve O'clock'. Or 'Moonrunner' becoming 'Bare Bum-showing Administrator' edit: I see you said as much in your last post which i'd not seen before commenting, the dangers of applying the first word out of the dictionary definition eh? Actually I think I was being generous. I suspect 'Monarch of Basement' was a deliberate mockery rather than mere incompetence. And nowhere near as funny as your Bare Bum-showing Administrator.
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Post by schlendrian on Oct 12, 2020 14:24:52 GMT
Conserning Blood of the Zombies over Escape - do Zombies even bleed?
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Post by a moderator on Oct 12, 2020 14:40:24 GMT
Isn't infected blood what turns people into Zombies in the book?
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 13, 2020 18:20:07 GMT
I'm going to drop this here given the discussion of Japanese <-> English translations.
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Post by vastariner on Oct 14, 2020 13:58:41 GMT
Well, we do have proper Japanese speakers around somewhere, but I can say that the bottom two characters in the red box are Chinese (and therefore probably kanji as well) for "birth stone".
The top two mean "entrust peace", so I assume that they are phonetic in Japanese for Jackson, whereas the bottom two are a translation of Livingstone.
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Post by vastariner on Oct 14, 2020 19:34:00 GMT
And a quick google suggests the Japanese pronunciation for the first two characters is "iyasu", so definitely phonetic.
This sometimes happens with foreign names into other scripts. London in Chinese uses characters pronounced "lun" and "dun" but whose meaning together is nonsense; whereas Oxford uses characters that mean "ox" and "ford" but whose pronunciation is nothing like "Oxford" (niujin).
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2020 20:40:31 GMT
And a quick google suggests the Japanese pronunciation for the first two characters is "iyasu", so definitely phonetic. This sometimes happens with foreign names into other scripts. London in Chinese uses characters pronounced "lun" and "dun" but whose meaning together is nonsense; whereas Oxford uses characters that mean "ox" and "ford" but whose pronunciation is nothing like "Oxford" (niujin). Ah yes – female horse fastened with wax and all that.
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Post by schlendrian on Oct 15, 2020 15:46:56 GMT
Translating names by carrying over the sense of the word (as in Livingstone/birth stone and Oxford) is something I haven't seen before, probably typical for the far east? Surely no one in Europe would think of translating Livingstone to "Lebendstein" or wrinting "Ochsenfurt" onto a map of the UK.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Oct 18, 2020 6:42:21 GMT
What cover is it that these translations come from? Is there some pic in thealmightymudworm 's post that isn't showing up for me for some reason? I can tell you that the authors of FF books do not have ateji (that's the use of kanji to provide sound rather than meaning) in Japanese, but are rendered in katakana. I don't see how one of the readings of a pair of kanji being ' iyasu' proves that it's phonetic, either, but I'd have to see the image to tell one way or another. If a book does use Chinese characters for Jackson & Livingstone's names then it is almost certainly Chinese.
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Post by vastariner on Oct 18, 2020 8:55:28 GMT
It's not a cover, it's a gift soapstone seal. The image has gone for some reason.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 18, 2020 10:12:50 GMT
What cover is it that these translations come from? Is there some pic in thealmightymudworm 's post that isn't showing up for me for some reason? I can tell you that the authors of FF books do not have ateji (that's the use of kanji to provide sound rather than meaning) in Japanese, but are rendered in katakana. I don't see how one of the readings of a pair of kanji being ' iyasu' proves that it's phonetic, either, but I'd have to see the image to tell one way or another. If a book does use Chinese characters for Jackson & Livingstone's names then it is almost certainly Chinese. Sorry, it's an embedded Ian Livingstone tweet. I should know by now that Proboard's system for handling that doesn't work for everyone. Does this show through? The tweet text was: "When Steve Jackson and I went on a [at]fightingfantasy publicity tour of Japan in 1986, our publisher Shakaishiso Sha presented us with stamps of our names registered in Kanji. Ink still good! Could our Japanese friends please let me know what the literal translation of mine is?" (Several people have replied.)
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