14) Temple of Terror

[scouserob]

Initial thoughts after fully mapping to the 2nd Dragon Artefact (Crystal Dragon):

So, it begins very much like The Forest of Doom, with a trip to Yaztromo's Shopping Tower.
Magic spells rather than magic items this time and all seem reasonably useful thus far.
Even at the point I am at now, I don't have much of a clue which choices will turn out to be optimal...

Then it is a journey to, and across, the Desert of Skulls, either overland then by air(!), or by barge then ship.
Both are great fun and lead to different paths through the desert.
It is a shame that the route with the infamous Basilisk is so obviously non-optimal thanks to that underdog of an Eagle.

When the paths re-join we have yet another shop 😂 followed by what was another early Ian Livingstone trope, The Filter:
Giant Sandworm SK10 ST20!
Blimey that'll sort the wheat from the chaff!

Freeway Fighter didn't have a filter but every other Livingstone book from City of Thieves to Temple of Terror does:
City of Thieves: 1st Moon Dog SK9 ST10 immediately followed by 2nd Moon Dog SK11 ST9
Deathtrap Dungeon: Cave Troll SK10 ST11
Island of the Lizard King: Giant Crab SK10 ST11 or Pirate Captain SK10 ST6
Caverns of the Snow Witch: Yeti SK11 ST12

Anyhow, at least my hard as nails, high skilled adventurers make it to Vatos and, if you don't use magic, that fantastic Serpent Guard from the cover.  🐍
I must admit that the first few times I got inside, I found Vatos to be a little disappointing, after the great overland, Port Blacksand, sea and desert sections, Vatos feels like a dungeon crawl rather than an exploration of a lost city. (At least as far as I've explored.)

I'm acclimatised to early Vatos now. and enjoying exploring its corridors.

I just have to search nook and cranny for these damn artefacts whilst avoiding seeing letters of the word 'DEATH'. 😂
(Yes I've finally found my old friend the Messenger of Death after being sure he'd pop up in Talisman of Death when I played through that.  🤦🏻‍♂️)

[kieran]

Feb 23, 2024 9:07:12 GMT scouserob said:

I must admit that the first few times I got inside, I found Vatos to be a little disappointing, after the great overland, Port Blacksand, sea and desert sections, Vatos feels like a dungeon crawl rather than an exploration of a lost city. (At least as far as I've explored.)

Yeah, you seem to mostly be in the tunnels under the city rather than the city itself for the most part.

[Per]

Someone should write a fan adventure that begins in that one place where you're almost allowed to go outside.

[kieran]

Feb 23, 2024 13:28:46 GMT Per said:

Someone should write a fan adventure that begins in that one place where you're almost allowed to go outside.

Sounds like the kind of approach best saved for someone who lacks the skill and imagination to design their own dungeon and characters.

[Pete Byrdie]

Feb 23, 2024 10:18:58 GMT kieran said:

Feb 23, 2024 9:07:12 GMT scouserob said:

I must admit that the first few times I got inside, I found Vatos to be a little disappointing, after the great overland, Port Blacksand, sea and desert sections, Vatos feels like a dungeon crawl rather than an exploration of a lost city. (At least as far as I've explored.)

Yeah, you seem to mostly be in the tunnels under the city rather than the city itself for the most part.

This was my first FF and I've returned to it several times, and I'd known it for years before I picked up from the text that the reason your trip through Vatos never takes you outside is because you enter the city and decide with no prior clues to start your search in the temple of the title. It's clearly a huge temple. So, basically, there's still a whole surrounding city left unexplored. Does Vatos turn up elsewhere? I know virtually nothing about the later books.

'Looking around, you see no sign of life. On the opposite side of the square there is a large stone archway. It seems as good a place as any to start your search for the dragon artefacts.

You walk through the arch to a stone stairway which descends to a torch-lit corridor below. As you walk warily down the stone steps, you wonder where Malbordus might be.'

As far as I can tell, you're now in the temple or at least its complex. Very little is made of this fact considering the title of the book. Unless there's another point at which you're clearly entering the temple.

Another thing that occurred to me only in my last playthrough of Temple of Terror is that, considering the way Sir Ian likes to string books together with reused characters, locations and items, Leesha was probably intended to be a recurring villian. As far as I recall, whatever you do she escapes. Does she turn up anywhere else in canon? There's much mystery to be explored in Vatos and Leesha. What gods are involved? What's their connection with Vatos, and what is Leesha's reason for being in the city? Why can she be slain only by the 'serrated edge' of a sandworm's tooth? Seems weirdly specific, and a desert crawling with sandworms seems an odd place for someone thus vulnerable to be hanging out. Can serrated knives not serve the same purpose?

Just random thoughts, really.

[IoannesKantakouzenos]

Feb 24, 2024 11:15:48 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

Why can she be slain only by the 'serrated edge' of a sandworm's tooth?

And why do her bodyguards revive if you give them the sandworm's tooth?

Also, a desert with sandworms... could Sir Ian have been influenced by Dune (after all, David Lynch's movie had been released the year before)?

[CharlesX]

Feb 26, 2024 18:02:38 GMT IoannesKantakouzenos said:

Feb 24, 2024 11:15:48 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

Why can she be slain only by the 'serrated edge' of a sandworm's tooth?

And why do her bodyguards revive if you give them the sandworm's tooth?

Also, a desert with sandworms... could Sir Ian have been influenced by Dune (after all, David Lynch's movie had been released the year before)?

Well, in Dune a Sandworm's tooth like other bits of a Sandworm has special properties. I'd agree Sir Ian may have read Dune - or at least seen Lynch's film - before writing Temple Of Terror.

   I don't think that's a bad thing, though. Say a giant Scorpion or Sand Golem or desert bandits wouldn't have made for half as good an encounter imo.

[Pete Byrdie]

Well, after possessing this book for nearly four decades, I've clearly now got too much time on my hands, because I've suddenly become somewhat obsessed with its odd details, and lack thereof.

The artist, Murkegg, mentions that those failing the art competition are sacrificed to honour the Dark One. Not a tremendous bit of world building from Sir Ian there. It could be anyone from Satan to Nyarlathotep really. But it serves its purpose.

Whether it has anything to do with a lunar deity I can't say, but Leesha obviously has a powerful black crescent shaped object.

The phoenix priest in white robes with the wind elemental chalice seems an odd choice in this location. Phoenixes and white robes strike me as positive imagery, and he summons a wind elemental, not a demonic creature. Perhaps his phoenix related knowledge is what sustains Leesha's immortality.

Leesha is vulnerable only to the 'jagged edge' of a sandworm's tooth, not its 'serrated edge' as I had remembered. Whether there's much difference in this detail I don't know, but I find it odd either way.

At what point you're in the temple itself, I don't know, but the first time anything very religious seems to occur is on entering the hall lined with armour and weapons where the dark disciples are, where there is also an alter and a marble slab on which you can be sacrificed.

The first time you're told you've entered a temple is when you first encounter Leesha, and you're told you've entered her inner temple (not a metaphor).

The dwarf informs you the dragon found nearest the entrance to the catacombs should be destroyed first. This is the first dragon you find, so unless the catacombs refers to a location I don't recall, I've always took this to mean the beginning of the 'dungeon crawl' section of the book is the catacombs. If this is the case, it's a loose use of the term which usually refers to a system of subterranean tombs or burial areas.

My only point is that the title makes far more of the temple than does the story. There's no early mention of finding the dragons in a temple complex, nor is much made of being in a temple complex.

Okay, I have a shower to clean, and I can't keep looking for reasons not to.

[schlendrian]

Feb 26, 2024 18:02:38 GMT IoannesKantakouzenos said:

Also, a desert with sandworms... could Sir Ian have been influenced by Dune (after all, David Lynch's movie had been released the year before)?

I'd say it's almost certain - giant sandworms, whose teeth are weapons, he must have at least have a general idea of Dune.

And I personally like that, that throughout Ian's books, you can basically see what interested him at the time of writing it, be it Mad Max, his Thailand voyages, Dune, baseball,...

[Per]

Feb 27, 2024 11:47:39 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

Leesha is vulnerable only to the 'jagged edge' of a sandworm's tooth, not its 'serrated edge' as I had remembered. Whether there's much difference in this detail I don't know, but I find it odd either way.

Conditional immortality/invulnerability is a thing that happens in myth and folk tale, so I don't have any issue with that, other than it could maybe have been handled slightly differently from forcing the player to win a ridiculously long and tough battle and then always carry the tooth unless you accept one of the book's polite requests to take it off your hands.

Feb 27, 2024 11:47:39 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

The first time you're told you've entered a temple is when you first encounter Leesha, and you're told you've entered her inner temple (not a metaphor).

In 354 after passing through the golden shower (also not a metaphor) you're informed you're in the "outer temple".

Feb 27, 2024 11:47:39 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

The dwarf informs you the dragon found nearest the entrance to the catacombs should be destroyed first. This is the first dragon you find, so unless the catacombs refers to a location I don't recall, I've always took this to mean the beginning of the 'dungeon crawl' section of the book is the catacombs. If this is the case, it's a loose use of the term which usually refers to a system of subterranean tombs or burial areas.

His bland reference to "a Mage" who wanted to relay this clue is also a bit weird. Who was this and what exactly was the source of this information? Specific knowledge of the actual whereabouts of the dragons and where the main character would have entered, or just random oracular truth? (Of course the actual answer is likely "Ian just typed something".)

[Pete Byrdie]

Feb 27, 2024 21:42:33 GMT Per said:

Feb 27, 2024 11:47:39 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

Leesha is vulnerable only to the 'jagged edge' of a sandworm's tooth, not its 'serrated edge' as I had remembered. Whether there's much difference in this detail I don't know, but I find it odd either way.

Conditional immortality/invulnerability is a thing that happens in myth and folk tale, so I don't have any issue with that, other than it could maybe have been handled slightly differently from forcing the player to win a ridiculously long and tough battle and then always carry the tooth unless you accept one of the book's polite requests to take it off your hands.

Feb 27, 2024 11:47:39 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

The first time you're told you've entered a temple is when you first encounter Leesha, and you're told you've entered her inner temple (not a metaphor).

In 354 after passing through the golden shower (also not a metaphor) you're informed you're in the "outer temple".

Feb 27, 2024 11:47:39 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

The dwarf informs you the dragon found nearest the entrance to the catacombs should be destroyed first. This is the first dragon you find, so unless the catacombs refers to a location I don't recall, I've always took this to mean the beginning of the 'dungeon crawl' section of the book is the catacombs. If this is the case, it's a loose use of the term which usually refers to a system of subterranean tombs or burial areas.

His bland reference to "a Mage" who wanted to relay this clue is also a bit weird. Who was this and what exactly was the source of this information? Specific knowledge of the actual whereabouts of the dragons and where the main character would have entered, or just random oracular truth? (Of course the actual answer is likely "Ian just typed something".)

I also have no problem with the conditional immortality. As well as myth and folklore, it's very Livingstone. It gives another object to add to the long list for a start, although in this case one you don't have to go searching for. I just wish it'd been fleshed out a bit more why she was vulnerable to this particular object. Or more, after forty years, I've only just begun to question the circumstances of the book.

Well, I've completely missed that mention of the outer temple on 354, but there it is. I still think it would have felt more relevant if there'd been mention of the temple earlier on. So I guess the golden rain is the entrance to the temple.

Yeah, the whole mage situation is a head scratcher. It's so random I pretty much don't think there's any chance of making sense of it.

[Per]

Feb 28, 2024 9:14:23 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

I also have no problem with the conditional immortality. As well as myth and folklore, it's very Livingstone. It gives another object to add to the long list for a start, although in this case one you don't have to go searching for. I just wish it'd been fleshed out a bit more why she was vulnerable to this particular object. Or more, after forty years, I've only just begun to question the circumstances of the book.

I looked through the book for mentions of the invulnerability thing, but I guess there really isn't one except for 219? Another example of how Ian doesn't tend to telegraph his laundry lists or hand out clues about found items, so that even when a merchant "goes into great raptures about all the goods he has to sell", you're still faced with a blind choice when encountering the creature that happens to be weak to dreamcatchers stitched together from yeti's earlobes.

[IoannesKantakouzenos]

I also have a question (besides the Skeleton Men / Sandworm tooth thing):

When you find Leesha (in her inner temple, apparently), she orders her blind slave to attack you. Just by a snap of her fingers, he knows what he is supposed to do, where you are and "lumbers down the steps to attack you" (with what, we have no idea, the fan he was using to refresh her mistress?). Also, Sk. 8 for a blind servant isn't it a bit high-ish?

[sylas]

Feb 28, 2024 16:46:12 GMT IoannesKantakouzenos said:

I also have a question (besides the Skeleton Men / Sandworm tooth thing):

When you find Leesha (in her inner temple, apparently), she orders her blind slave to attack you. Just by a snap of her fingers, he knows what he is supposed to do, where you are and "lumbers down the steps to attack you" (with what, we have no idea, the fan he was using to refresh her mistress?). Also, Sk. 8 for a blind servant isn't it a bit high-ish?

Not if you're good at what you do. Noy, the monk Trialmaster, also had a Skill of 8.

[Per]

Feb 26, 2024 18:02:38 GMT IoannesKantakouzenos said:

And why do her bodyguards revive if you give them the sandworm's tooth?

Is this a translation issue perhaps, or a misreading of the English edition? Original 346 reads: "Their expressionless faces seem somehow relieved, and you wonder what mistake you have made."

[IoannesKantakouzenos]

Feb 28, 2024 16:57:50 GMT sylas said:

Noy, the monk Trialmaster, also had a Skill of 8.

Touché for you.

Feb 28, 2024 17:03:32 GMT Per said:

Is this a translation issue perhaps, or a misreading of the English edition? Original 346 reads: "Their expressionless faces seem somehow relieved, and you wonder what mistake you have made."

And what happens after that? If you defeat the Skeleton Men, "just as you are about to walk through the archway into the chamber beyond, the Skeleton Men get up from the floor" and, to sum it up, kill you. Whereas if you don't give them the tooth, if you defeat them, they stay dead.

[Per]

Feb 28, 2024 17:25:39 GMT IoannesKantakouzenos said:

Feb 28, 2024 17:03:32 GMT Per said:

Is this a translation issue perhaps, or a misreading of the English edition? Original 346 reads: "Their expressionless faces seem somehow relieved, and you wonder what mistake you have made."

And what happens after that? If you defeat the Skeleton Men, "just as you are about to walk through the archway into the chamber beyond, the Skeleton Men get up from the floor" and, to sum it up, kill you. Whereas if you don't give them the tooth, if you defeat them, they stay dead.

Um, right, that's weird, I didn't notice winning that battle took you to a different section. I suspect that's another thing there will never be a good answer for, the only guess I have is that Ian figured you'd have lost anyway and needed to use up a paragraph, but really all it accomplishes is it reduces the chance that he gets to send anyone to the Leesha-with-sword instant death.

[Pete Byrdie]

Feb 26, 2024 18:38:01 GMT CharlesX said:

Feb 26, 2024 18:02:38 GMT IoannesKantakouzenos said:

And why do her bodyguards revive if you give them the sandworm's tooth?

Also, a desert with sandworms... could Sir Ian have been influenced by Dune (after all, David Lynch's movie had been released the year before)?

Well, in Dune a Sandworm's tooth like other bits of a Sandworm has special properties. I'd agree Sir Ian may have read Dune - or at least seen Lynch's film - before writing Temple Of Terror.

   I don't think that's a bad thing, though. Say a giant Scorpion or Sand Golem or desert bandits wouldn't have made for half as good an encounter imo.

Sir Ian was also perhaps watching a lot of Masters of the Universe when he thought of the skeleton men. The eighties! I wouldn't give tuppence for most of the music or fashions, but what a time for movies and TV.

Getting killed by the previously slaughtered skeleton men rings a faint bell with me, but it must have been from decades ago because I've know for as long as I can remember that one requires the tooth to get past Leesha. It is a strange use of a paragraph, when it makes so little sense and losing the tooth already condemns the hero.

[scouserob]

I haven't reached Leesha yet, though from all the comments above I am very much looking forward to it.  😀

My furthest foray thus far is to the Sun and Moon doors.
I chose poorly.
The picture however did stir forgotten memories of casting the Read Symbols Spell on that herby water that I had used to bathe my wounds on a previous attempt.
(I didn't have the Read Symbols Spell on this playthrough so it didn't seem right using this prior knowledge as a justification flicking through the book for clues to inform my choice.)

It looks like the symbols are a simple substitution cypher.
Filling in the letters we know from the herby water gets the following:


So as we know the symbol for R, the only sensible possibility for the last letter on the Sun Door is M.
DOOM!
(This is confirmed in the paragraph when you take the Sun Door but it is cool that you can figure it out.)

I haven't got back deep enough to take the Moon Door yet but I'm guessing the word on that door is DESTINY?

Anyhow deeper exploration has shed some light on the structure of Vatos.
It is said that the, hard as nails, Night Horror is:
'... stalking the corridors of Vatos in search of prey.'

Which suggests to me that Vatos is, at least partially, and probably mostly, an underground city.
I guess this would make some sense for protection from the heat, the sand and the Giant Sandworms.
(Those Sandworms are depicted attacking the above ground portion of the city in a carving.)

Oh, and you can't have Giant Sandworms without thinking about Dune, though compared to Freeway Fighter and Mad Max along with Space Assassin and The Lord of the Rings, this is rather a mild, err, homage.

The Temple (of Terror) itself seems to begin somewhere around the curtain of golden rain.
I'm guessing that it is the entrance.
This is because the Slave Guard directly on the other side is called: '... a Slave Guard of the outer temple.'

Anyhow, I'm loving this adventure so far.
I've been caught twice more by that damn Messenger of Death.
The coin operated flip up lid made me laugh out loud. That is some glorious trolling! 🤣
Using a Light spell got me caught another time, this time eliciting some choice cursing as it took all my remaining stamina. 😠

[CharlesX]

Temple Of Terror is one of the better Livingstone FFs. For me his Night Horror is more unfair than his Giant Sandworm, which at least is near the start of the adventure as you remark (most other gamebooks writers would\could have restored your Skill after the fight, but with Sir Ian hahahahaha). I'd compare Temple Of Terror with Indiana Jones, and favourably. As you say Temple Of Terror is colourful in all sorts of ways. You might compare it with Curse Of The Mummy, which has a worse difficulty curve problem (because this was before Sir Ian 'hit the drink' on difficulty level), many more tests and fights and less of an atmosphere.

[sylas]

Mar 2, 2024 17:48:17 GMT CharlesX said:

Temple Of Terror is one of the better Livingstone FFs. For me his Night Horror is more unfair than his Giant Sandworm, which at least is near the start of the adventure as you remark (most other gamebooks writers would\could have restored your Skill after the fight, but with Sir Ian hahahahaha). I'd compare Temple Of Terror with Indiana Jones, and favourably. As you say Temple Of Terror is colourful in all sorts of ways. You might compare it with Curse Of The Mummy, which has a worse difficulty curve problem (because this was before Sir Ian 'hit the drink' on difficulty level), many more tests and fights and less of an atmosphere.

The Night Horror would be a terror in a straight fight compared to the Sandworm. But if you have a certain item, you can avoid fighting him.

[scouserob]

Mar 2, 2024 22:05:33 GMT sylas said:

Mar 2, 2024 17:48:17 GMT CharlesX said:

For me his Night Horror is more unfair than his Giant Sandworm, which at least is near the start of the adventure as you remark (most other gamebooks writers would\could have restored your Skill after the fight, but with Sir Ian hahahahaha).

The Night Horror would be a terror in a straight fight compared to the Sandworm. But if you have a certain item, you can avoid fighting him.

Yeah, the fact that 50% of the time you don't damage the Night Horror gives him effectively 20 Stamina, the same as the Giant Sandworm.
That Skill point loss every time you are hit mechanic though! 😱
One bad dice roll can snowball into a cascade of Skill point losses.
The Minion and Envoy of Death had the same mechanic in Talisman of Death. (Where, as CharlesX says, you get all but 1 Skill back if you survive.)
They only had a Skill of 7/8 and a Stamina of 5/4 but both killed many of my double figure Skill adventurers.
The same mechanic on a Skill 10 Stamina 20 (effectively) monster?
I'm going to have work out the odds... but I'm guessing even a Skill 12 Stamina 24 Luck 12 adventurer has less than a 50% chance of survival.

Needless to say, I haven't beaten the Night Horror in a sword fight yet, so the item path seems the only feasible way to go.
Unfortunately you need to pass a Luck Test to get the item in the first place (a long time beforehand) and then another Luck Test to use the item without losing a Skill point.

[sylas]

Yeah the Night Horror is one of the toughest random encounters around along with the likes of Banshees and Death Spiders.

[scouserob]

I think these are the probabilities of defeating the Night Horror.
The decision of when to use Luck when winning a round seems to matter a little bit for Adventurers who enter the battle with Luck < 10, gaining you an extra 2%-3% chance of winning if you keep Testing your Luck when it dips below the usual threshold of 7.
(If you enter the battle with a Luck of 11 or 12 it doesn't seem to matter much.)

I imagine the benefit of the smaller chance of ending the fight quickly outweighs the detrimental larger probability of extending the fight in these cases.

After having a little play about it seems like a good strategy for any adventurer entering the fight with a Luck of 7 is:
Use Luck when winning a round with the Night Horror's Stamina > 2 and your Luck > 3

A good strategy for any adventurer entering the fight with Luck > 7:
Use Luck when winning a round with the Night Horror's Stamina > 2 and your Luck > 4

I'm also assuming we use always use Luck if hit when on 2 Stamina.

It isn't quite as bad as I guessed, with the best of the best having more than a 50% chance of surviving.
(Though what state they are in Skill-wise afterwards isn't recorded.)

Assuming, as always, that my calculations are correct.

[CharlesX]

Very erudite table scouserob . Two other points: in theory a Luck 12 adventurer wouldn't have to face the Night Horror as they would pass the test for the Brass Handbell (there are no Luck tests before Brass Handbell, and the only fights are easier than others). And Sir Ian toughly makes those who fail the Brass Handbell test lose 1 Skill anyway.

   Only very rarely a high Skill adventurer (who faces it) will fluke Night Horror with no, one or two hits from it. Half of the time, as you recommend and imply, my adventurer wins with Luck of 5 or below and Skill 9 or below, and I'm left wondering whether my adventurer will die before he faces Malbordus or when he does.

[scouserob]

Mar 3, 2024 16:53:21 GMT CharlesX said:

Very erudite table scouserob . Two other points: in theory a Luck 12 adventurer wouldn't have to face the Night Horror as they would pass the test for the Brass Handbell (there are no Luck tests before Brass Handbell, and the only fights are easier than others). And Sir Ian toughly makes those who fail the Brass Handbell test lose 1 Skill anyway.

Thanks. 😀 
And true. 👍🏻

The only way a Luck 12 adventurer faces the Night Horror, when taking the true path, is if they were:
1) Hit in one or both of the fights in Port Blacksand whilst on 2 Stamina and then took the life saving Luck Test.
2) Failed the Luck Test in the Desert of Skulls with their 10 or 11 Luck.
3) Survived the Sandworm with 1 less Skill than their Initial value to get their lost Skill point back from that Helmet just inside Vatos.

All of which sounds rather unlikely.
You can also pretty much ignore the big Skill 7 to 9 boxes as most of all of those adventurers are in the belly of a Giant Sandworm.
(If they even managed to get that far.)

I've finally beat my record after a string of duff adventurers failed to get me anywhere near reaching the Sun and Moon Doors again.

And what do I find?
Some of the most Ian Livingstone rooms ever on the other side. (All they needed were a shop.)
Two rooms with a choice of three objects to investigate and then a long dark route with chances to turn back.
Of course he lets me look at all six of these objects, the devil, how could I resist?
Anyhow I survived all that business and found myself climbing some steps to a door that left me stranded outside Vatos!
Then Malbordous flew over on a dragon laughing to himself and all is lost...

But hold on!
This means that Malbordous has decided to make do with just the fifth and final dragon artefact (which he has already brought back to life with that simple incantation) despite the Dark Elves' test being to find and collect all five of them. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Talk about leaving a job 20% done.
Did he get bored and give up looking for the rest of them?
Will the Dark Elf Lords still give him their knowledge/ancient powers when he brings back just the one?
Perhaps, if I survive that long, I'll see him fly back over the walls tomorrow, suitably chastened, to try to collect the rest.

[kieran]

Mar 3, 2024 20:36:00 GMT scouserob said:

Anyhow I survived all that business and found myself climbing some steps to a door that left me stranded outside Vatos!
Then Malbordous flew over on a dragon laughing to himself and all is lost...

But hold on!
This means that Malbordous has decided to make do with just the fifth and final dragon artefact (which he has already brought back to life with that simple incantation) despite the Dark Elves' test being to find and collect all five of them. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Talk about leaving a job 20% done.
Did he get bored and give up looking for the rest of them?
Will the Dark Elf Lords still give him their knowledge/ancient powers when he brings back just the one?
Perhaps, if I survive that long, I'll see him fly back over the walls tomorrow, suitably chastened, to try to collect the rest.

That's always bothered me too. While him having 1-4 dragons would still be a bad thing, preventing him finding even one artefact means you've severely scuppered his plans

[scouserob]

I've finally destroyed those Dragon Artefacts, beaten Malbordous in single combat, and saved Allanisia.
What a hero!

I really enjoyed it, classic Ian Livingstone stuff, my favourite of his since City of Thieves.

I do like it when a rock hard fight against the main antagonist has these words underneath it:
If you win, turn to 400.
(No pressure then!)

My ranking of the Fighting Fantasy gamebooks that I have fully mapped out:

SPOILER: Click to show

1. Deathtrap Dungeon
2. Creature of Havoc
3. Secrets of Salamonis
4. The Citadel of Chaos
5. House of Hell
6. City of Thieves
7. Talisman of Death
8. Temple of Terror
9. Scorpion Swamp
10. The Warlock of Firetop Mountain
11. Shadow of the Giants
12. Island of the Lizard King
13. Freeway Fighter
14. The Forest of Doom
15. Caverns of the Snow Witch
16. Space Assassin
17. Blood of the Zombies
18. Starship Traveller

(Edit: Corected post in agreement with CharlesX directly below.)

[CharlesX]

Mar 10, 2024 15:10:26 GMT scouserob said:

I've finally destroyed those Dragon Artefacts, beaten Malbordous in single combat, and saved Allanisia.
What a hero!

I really enjoyed it, classic Ian Livingstone stuff, my favourite of his since City of Thieves.

I do like it when a rock hard fight against the main antagonist has these words underneath it:
If you win, turn to 400.
(No pressure then!)

My ranking of the Fighting Fantasy novels that I have fully mapped out:

SPOILER: Click to show

1. Deathtrap Dungeon
2. Creature of Havoc
3. Secrets of Salamonis
4. The Citadel of Chaos
5. House of Hell
6. City of Thieves
7. Talisman of Death
8. Temple of Terror
9. Scorpion Swamp
10. The Warlock of Firetop Mountain
11. Shadow of the Giants
12. Island of the Lizard King
13. Freeway Fighter
14. The Forest of Doom
15. Caverns of the Snow Witch
16. Space Assassin
17. Blood of the Zombies
18. Starship Traveller

Technically Fighting Fantasy gamebooks. Apparently even Steve Jackson & Sir Ian have been asked by interviewers "When will you write proper books?", and these non-linear works could trigger another argument about what constitutes 'actual literature' and what doesn't. In my opinion Deathtrap Dungeon and Creature Of Havoc are at least as well-written as any novel, but they're still non-linear works, and ones with a kid audience (which again, doesn't mean they aren't praiseworthy).

   I like Temple Of Terror, along with Island Of The Lizard King its a very fun gamebook you can enjoy if you don't feel like mapping and moving in a complicated optimal route.

[Pete Byrdie]

Mar 4, 2024 11:00:13 GMT kieran said:

Mar 3, 2024 20:36:00 GMT scouserob said:

Anyhow I survived all that business and found myself climbing some steps to a door that left me stranded outside Vatos!
Then Malbordous flew over on a dragon laughing to himself and all is lost...

But hold on!
This means that Malbordous has decided to make do with just the fifth and final dragon artefact (which he has already brought back to life with that simple incantation) despite the Dark Elves' test being to find and collect all five of them. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Talk about leaving a job 20% done.
Did he get bored and give up looking for the rest of them?
Will the Dark Elf Lords still give him their knowledge/ancient powers when he brings back just the one?
Perhaps, if I survive that long, I'll see him fly back over the walls tomorrow, suitably chastened, to try to collect the rest.

That's always bothered me too. While him having 1-4 dragons would still be a bad thing, preventing him finding even one artefact means you've severely scuppered his plans

This was another aspect of ToT that never occurred to me as a kid. Of course you have to get all the artefacts or he'll go on the rampage with whichever ones remain. Then, at some point as an adult, I've read the introduction again and realised it makes no sense. He's still been pretty scuppered. And obviously he'll use whichever dragons he has to acquire whichever dragons the player character has. But I suppose you can't add another 400 reference gamebook to the end of ToT as Malbordus chases you across Allansia while you search for another way to defeat him and destroy the dragons once and for all.