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Post by slloyd14 on Jul 12, 2022 15:35:35 GMT
I've always wondered two things about grinding up the ingredients:
1) Why can't you grind up all 3 anyway? After all, they will include the two correct ones. 2) If you have missed one of the compound parts, then you shouldn't have the auto fail. Surely while you are sitting, sobbing, the crow will turn up with the message and then you can see that you still have a chance.
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Post by CharlesX on Jul 12, 2022 15:43:30 GMT
I've always wondered two things about grinding up the ingredients: 1) Why can't you grind up all 3 anyway? After all, they will include the two correct ones. 2) If you have missed one of the compound parts, then you shouldn't have the auto fail. Surely while you are sitting, sobbing, the crow will turn up with the message and then you can see that you still have a chance. While Nicodemus is an all-knowing wizard who can somehow only send you a message after you collect all three ingredients, he is at at the same time an idiot and a b*st*rd who will send you the message setting you up for possible failure only in the event you have three spell ingredients. He's a seriously satirical wizard straight out of a Terry Pratchett book. That's the way I've always thought about it!
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Post by a moderator on Jul 12, 2022 16:04:24 GMT
Why can't you grind up all 3 anyway? After all, they will include the two correct ones. "Two of these leaves are herbs that will greatly enhance the flavour of this dish. The other is one of the most lethal toxins in existence. I can't remember which is which, so I'll just chuck them all into the pot. After all, they will include the two correct ones."
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Post by vastariner on Jul 13, 2022 7:40:25 GMT
I've always wondered two things about grinding up the ingredients: 1) Why can't you grind up all 3 anyway? After all, they will include the two correct ones. 2) If you have missed one of the compound parts, then you shouldn't have the auto fail. Surely while you are sitting, sobbing, the crow will turn up with the message and then you can see that you still have a chance. While Nicodemus is an all-knowing wizard who can somehow only send you a message after you collect all three ingredients, he is at at the same time an idiot and a b*st*rd who will send you the message setting you up for possible failure only in the event you have three spell ingredients. He's a seriously satirical wizard straight out of a Terry Pratchett book. That's the way I've always thought about it!
And, what's more, his helpful suggestions about how to combine any two out of 1, 2, and 3, are:
-try 1 and 2; -try 1 and 3; or -try 2 and 3.
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Post by scouserob on Jul 13, 2022 16:37:29 GMT
I don’t mind the 1, chance in 3, guessing game at the end. At least from a gameplay perspective. (Though I was spawny and got it right first time anyway.)
Plot wise, it does mean that Nicodemus is a bit of an unreliable doofus.
Getting right to the end and missing out is all part of the, err, fun. You have to pass a luck test just prior to that choice anyway. And the average number of tries is just two, successful to that point, play throughs. (Assuming you remember the failed combinations.)
I think it is those blasted Moondogs and their complete dominance of Skill 7 and 8 characters that needs amendment.
it would be nice to have some kind of item in the latter part of Port Blacksand (perhaps hidden behind a Skill 8/9 fight) that increases your minimum initial skill to 9.
That would balance things out a bit.
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lt
Squire
Posts: 18
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Post by lt on Dec 16, 2022 20:00:12 GMT
Hi, I'm recently playing CoT with my 5 yr old daughter, she absolutely loved it, we're on our 3rd play session (1st one we lost, 2nd and 3rd for the 2nd try). I have a question that I wanna know how you FF veterans handles it--skill, we started lucky with a respectable initial skill of 11 and no skill penalties yet, we got the Magical Elven Boots +1 skill and also Chainmail Coat +2 skill, so would that have any effect on her character's skill? That'd be 14 skill! But we dropped our shield (-1) while being pursued and also had to take off our chainmail coat (-2) which brings us back to our starting skill after we left Port Blacksand. Did we play it right? It doesn't make sense that we would have 8 skill left if we can't go over our Initial Skill. We're at the Tower now and we just got our Unicorn shield, another skill bonus, we took a break there and will continue at the next session. Happy to hear your suggestions on how to handle each of the above mentioned items and hope we're playing it right. Thanks
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Post by scouserob on Dec 16, 2022 20:51:48 GMT
I play it as the Elven Boots and Chainmail only give you extra Skill points if you are below your Initial Skill. So with no Skill points lost, I’d still be on the Initial Skill of 11. Losing the Shield would knock me down to 10. (I seem to remember that is even a bit ambiguous whether the Shield is part of your starting equipment.) Losing the Chainmail and taking the -2 Skill for a bonus you weren’t allowed to apply is ridiculously unfair but I’d probably suck it up and go down to 8. Playing more sensibly would probably involve only losing Skill points that were gained by the Chainmail.
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lt
Squire
Posts: 18
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Post by lt on Dec 16, 2022 21:56:44 GMT
I play it as the Elven Boots and Chainmail only give you extra Skill points if you are below your Initial Skill. So with no Skill points lost, I’d still be on the Initial Skill of 11. Losing the Shield would knock me down to 10. (I seem to remember that is even a bit ambiguous whether the Shield is part of your starting equipment.) Losing the Chainmail and taking the -2 Skill for a bonus you weren’t allowed to apply is ridiculously unfair but I’d probably suck it up and go down to 8. Playing more sensibly would probably involve only losing Skill points that were gained by the Chainmail. I will take that losing my shield (reduces my skill) therefore going to 10 but extra 2 points for the chainmail is harsh, we had a hard time fighting Moon Dog #2 who had a skill of 11, and we had a skill of 11 then, I'll have to discuss it with my daughter and see what she thinks when we resume 😉 she decided to compound the hag's hair and black pearl, we'll see if we were destined for doom.
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Post by tyrion on Dec 16, 2022 22:52:46 GMT
Hi, I'm recently playing CoT with my 5 yr old daughter, she absolutely loved it, we're on our 3rd play session (1st one we lost, 2nd and 3rd for the 2nd try). I have a question that I wanna know how you FF veterans handles it--skill, we started lucky with a respectable initial skill of 11 and no skill penalties yet, we got the Magical Elven Boots +1 skill and also Chainmail Coat +2 skill, so would that have any effect on her character's skill? That'd be 14 skill! But we dropped our shield (-1) while being pursued and also had to take off our chainmail coat (-2) which brings us back to our starting skill after we left Port Blacksand. Did we play it right? It doesn't make sense that we would have 8 skill left if we can't go over our Initial Skill. We're at the Tower now and we just got our Unicorn shield, another skill bonus, we took a break there and will continue at the next session. Happy to hear your suggestions on how to handle each of the above mentioned items and hope we're playing it right. Thanks If I can't apply a skill bonus from an item because it takes me over my initial skill, I tuck the item in my backpack for later, just in case I lose a skill point. So I'd play it exactly as you have. I think it is clear that the authors didn't really know the rules themselves, so there is no point in sticking with the rules exactly as written. Just play what makes sense.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 17, 2022 1:40:37 GMT
Hi, I'm recently playing CoT with my 5 yr old daughter, she absolutely loved it, we're on our 3rd play session (1st one we lost, 2nd and 3rd for the 2nd try). I have a question that I wanna know how you FF veterans handles it--skill, we started lucky with a respectable initial skill of 11 and no skill penalties yet, we got the Magical Elven Boots +1 skill and also Chainmail Coat +2 skill, so would that have any effect on her character's skill? That'd be 14 skill! But we dropped our shield (-1) while being pursued and also had to take off our chainmail coat (-2) which brings us back to our starting skill after we left Port Blacksand. Did we play it right? It doesn't make sense that we would have 8 skill left if we can't go over our Initial Skill. We're at the Tower now and we just got our Unicorn shield, another skill bonus, we took a break there and will continue at the next session. Happy to hear your suggestions on how to handle each of the above mentioned items and hope we're playing it right. Thanks If I'm reading this correctly, you should have been at SKILL 11 all the way through imo. SKILL bonus items can't make you exceed your initial SKILL except when stated, but so long as you have them they're 'trying' to raise it. That seems like the least nonsensical interpretation of the rules.
I rambled on about that at greater length on the Scorpion Swamp thread: The Magic SwordsThe magic sword you are given by Grimslade for defeating the Goblin Statue without losing any stamina has the following rule: Add 1 to your Skill whenever you use it.So though it cannot take you above your Initial Skill, it will negate your skill loss from the Swamp Orcs, should you choose to pass them without the Magnet Pendant. So for example: Your Initial Skill is 10.You fight the Crab Grass with the Magic Sword but your Skill is still only 10 for this fight. The Swamp Orcs wound you, your Skill is now 9. You fight the Swamp Orcs with the Magic Sword and your Skill is back to 10 for this fight. Your leave the clearing with a Skill of 9. Oddly the +2 Skill The magic Sword you get for killing Grimslade before or after the swamp just states: Adds 2 to the skill of its user.Which I would usually take to mean it would be a permanent boost for skill tests and the like. I would also be conflicted on the legitimacy of adding this skill bonus retrospectively after losing skill points in the swamp. Does anyone have any thoughts on the rules for such equipment skill bonuses in general and how to apply them? I always play it as the skill bonus is totally wasted since at the time you pick up the sword, you're still at maximum skill. That said, I don't think there's anything in the rules that would prohibit you from declining to switch swords until a more advantageous time. Me too, at least in other gamebooks or with say the Ranger’s +1 Skill Helmet deep in the swamp. However the red text in my post above clearly states that this specific Magic Sword works like an Attack Strength bonus that only works when you are below your initial skill. (At least that is what I have convinced myself of, hopefully not to ease a guilty conscience. 😬) FWIW, not only do I think that a magic sword can compensate for later SKILL loss, I don't see the logic of thinking otherwise. Naturally we start with the problem that the rules on this stuff don't really make sense. With the adventurer starting with identical initial and current SKILL scores, all the rings, amulets and weaponry infused with supernatural powers are reduced to the status of hearing aids or reading glasses. They are useless to anyone in perfect health. This confuses things, but there's still surely a difference between events and items which are used up on the one hand, and persisting objects on the other. Let's say that you have lost a SKILL point before either getting hold of a SKILL potion or an 'increases your SKILL in combat' sword. If you drink the potion, your SKILL is restored (from 9 to 10 let's say) permanently. If you use the sword, it is restored to 10, at least during combat. But what if you then lose the sword, or trade it in for one which does extra damage or something? Then your SKILL in combat will surely drop again, because you are no longer benefiting from its magic. As the instructions used to say "A Magic Weapon may increase your SKILL, but remember that only one weapon may be used at a time!" So if when it works the magic sword is continuously raising your SKILL in battle for as long as you use it, what sense can be made of it permanently and uselessly discharging if it isn't effective immediately? The least weird way of interpreting the initial SKILL limit is that the sword is continuously trying to increase your SKILL, like a man pushing against a wall. If the man is moved back from the wall, he is free to step towards it again. I can't recall CoT in detail but presumably the bonuses aren't specified as taking you over your initial score...? So: Gain Magical Elven Boots +1 skill and also Chainmail Coat +2 skill [no change to current SKILL] Lose shield [no change as -1 SKILL immediately compensated by the +1 SKILL boots] Lose armour [no change as you didn't benefit from the potential points you 'lose']
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lt
Squire
Posts: 18
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Post by lt on Dec 17, 2022 4:40:22 GMT
I can't recall CoT in detail but presumably the bonuses aren't specified as taking you over your initial score...? So: Gain Magical Elven Boots +1 skill and also Chainmail Coat +2 skill [no change to current SKILL] Lose shield [no change as -1 SKILL immediately compensated by the +1 SKILL boots] Lose armour [no change as you didn't benefit from the potential points you 'lose'] Makes sense, we continued tonight and in the end it didn't matter, we lost because we made the wrong fricking compound! Darn Nicodemus. My daughter's a bit disappointed because of that.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Dec 17, 2022 16:44:07 GMT
Gain Magical Elven Boots +1 skill and also Chainmail Coat +2 skill Take them as attack strength bonuses and give an average-rolls character a better chance of beating that flipping SKILL 11 Moondog?
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Post by a moderator on Dec 17, 2022 17:07:28 GMT
The daft thing is that on two of the three streets leading from the first junction, you can acquire items that provide an Attack Strength bonus. And then the rest of the book forgets about Attack Strength and just gives boosts to Skill.
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Post by soulreaver on Dec 19, 2022 1:52:04 GMT
Hi, I'm recently playing CoT with my 5 yr old daughter, she absolutely loved it, we're on our 3rd play session (1st one we lost, 2nd and 3rd for the 2nd try). I have a question that I wanna know how you FF veterans handles it--skill, we started lucky with a respectable initial skill of 11 and no skill penalties yet, we got the Magical Elven Boots +1 skill and also Chainmail Coat +2 skill, so would that have any effect on her character's skill? That'd be 14 skill! But we dropped our shield (-1) while being pursued and also had to take off our chainmail coat (-2) which brings us back to our starting skill after we left Port Blacksand. Did we play it right? It doesn't make sense that we would have 8 skill left if we can't go over our Initial Skill. We're at the Tower now and we just got our Unicorn shield, another skill bonus, we took a break there and will continue at the next session. Happy to hear your suggestions on how to handle each of the above mentioned items and hope we're playing it right. Thanks In my view, Ian Livingstone does not know how the rules to his own gamebooks work and so forgets that Skill bonuses can't take you over their Initial level, and also forgets that Skill (particularly in later books) gets used for more than just combat. He sometimes, haltingly, goes "oh yeah, we've got Attack Strength, don't we?" but then forgets again.
I've got another thread up about this very thing.
Based on the guidelines I set out in that thread on how these things should go, the book SHOULD treat the items as follows: - Elven Boots raise your Initial and current Skill by 1 as long as you're wearing them. - Chainmail Coat gives you an Attack Strength bonus while you're wearing it (if you go by the book it would be +2, but that does seem a bit high to me - personally I'd probably just have made it +1). - As for the shield: if it was starting equipment, then I'd translate that into a -1 Attack Strength penalty for losing it unless you can replace your shield later. If it wasn't starting equipment, then you'd lose whatever bonus it gave you (which I think should be a +1 Attack Strength bonus, not a Skill bonus).
Another, less complicated way of playing it, and more 'by the rules' is to have any items you're wearing give you additional skill, even if it's above your Initial level, but to treat your ACTUAL Skill as being at your Initial level if it's higher... and to deduct the skill points that they gave you if you lose the item.
So say your current and Initial Skill is 11: Gain Elven Boots is +1 Skill: Skill is 11+1 (effectively = 11) Gain Chainmail Coat for +2 Skill next: Skill is now 11+1+2 (effectively = 11) Then we lose shield for -1 Skill: Skill is now 10+1+2 (effectively = 11) Lastly we discard our Chainmail Coat (losing the +2 Skill it gave us): Skill is now 10+1 (effectively = 11)
It's not perfect but it's not quite a stupid as gaining no bonus when you get the stuff but somehow being handicapped by losing it.
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Post by Peter on Dec 21, 2022 3:09:13 GMT
Or, as someone has previously suggested, consider 12/24/12 to be maximum limits (the peak of human endeavour), and the numbers you roll at the start are merely your starting stats. Increases can take you above your starting stats, but not above the maximums.
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Post by tyrion on Sept 1, 2023 18:58:10 GMT
Happy 40th birthday!
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Post by linflas on Sept 26, 2023 6:18:54 GMT
Given that Mrs Pipe's Golden Flower is indeed just 1, is there anywhere you can pick up a bunch of flowers to give to the Serpent Queen? As far as I can tell, this is impossible, and it makes reference 172 unreachable. Checking the whole book like you probably did, and I can't find any bunch of flowers to pick up or buy. 172 is definitely unreachable.
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 105
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on Feb 15, 2024 22:26:24 GMT
In the Portuguese version of this book, we lack the illustration for (398). I guess Verbo had a problem with semi-nudity in a juvenile book…?
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