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Post by King Gillibran on Feb 3, 2023 15:43:28 GMT
Just two now! Interesting that the favourite are both by the main authors: one by Steve and one by Ian, and that they both are within the first ten. Clearly the Gamebooks started of brilliantly!
I have set it so that you cannot see the votes till the poll is over and the poll will end on Saturday next week. Any ideas of what poll/polls I can run next is welcome. Enjoy!
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 3, 2023 16:33:24 GMT
Thought I was the poll enthusiast around here? ijk. But you seem to have the golden touch, having maybe 40 people vote is miles more than most of us can get. Suggest at halloween you could do a creepy reverse poll for the worst FF? Edited in reply to King Gillibran below: That was the only poll I could think of I'm afraid, I know it is weak and poor timing after your big poll was in December, but you know,  . Stay sitting for my next idea, such as a poll for the 45th FF anniversary  . Further edit: I think I didn't read\simply disregarded the word next. |
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Post by King Gillibran on Feb 3, 2023 16:58:12 GMT
Thought I was the poll enthusiast around here? ijk. But you seem to have the golden touch, having maybe 40 people vote is miles more than most of us can get. Suggest at halloween you could do a creepy reverse poll for the worst FF?
Maybe I can do one slightly sooner than that!!! |
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679 
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Feb 3, 2023 17:24:07 GMT
Who is the Victor?
I guess I am the Victor.
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Post by nathanh on Feb 3, 2023 19:32:37 GMT
Favourite Villain might be a good one?
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Post by paperexplorer on Feb 4, 2023 1:55:45 GMT
Best author?
Best cover art?
Best internal art?
Book that most needs a reprint?
Best scifi book?
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Post by terrysalt on Feb 4, 2023 19:12:04 GMT
Who is the Victor? I guess I am the Victor. Actually, Dr. Frankenstein is! |
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 4, 2023 19:21:57 GMT
Who is the Victor? I guess I am the Victor. Actually, Dr. Frankenstein is! I prefer Jospeh Conrad's Victory (even more obscure than the last two).
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 4, 2023 19:32:30 GMT
Best author? Best cover art? Best internal art? Book that most needs a reprint? Best scifi book? I tried an author ranking poll a few months back and it flopped with only two other people expressing an interest after two weeks. However, a very carefully crafted and worded one could stand a good chance.
Art is deeply important to me in FF as in elsewhere so I would like a poll along those lines. Book that most needs reprints runs into definition issues - is it needs or would want? For example, Revenge Of The Vampire and Tower Of Destruction reprints might be very welcome if a reprint corrected their mistakes. But as we all know, were those reprints to happen, it's unlikely there's be changes to correct errors, or more than minor changes (the reprint of Revenge changed only a couple of small things), and often of course reprints add new errors (Curse Of The Mummy being perhaps the best example). Scifi FF also runs into even more major definition issues - is House Of Hell scifi, is Spectral Stalkers, is Blood Of The Zombies?
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Post by paperexplorer on Feb 7, 2023 0:01:50 GMT
House and Zombies are horror.
Spectral Stalkers can be included though as the concept is rooted in scifi
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 10, 2023 8:58:22 GMT
It feels somehow anticlimactic to end this way, with a heavy\landslide victory for Deathtrap Dungeon, as it almost does a disservice to those FF who did well, received votes, or even didn't receive votes (I say a 'losers vote' would not have worked well except as Halloween comedy as I suggested elsewhere). If Deathtrap Dungeon is Ian Livingstone's best book, I don't think House Of Hell is Steve Jackson's - I would have voted for Creature Of Havoc against Deathtrap Dungeon, but like Legend Of The Shadow Warriors and Howl Of The Werewolf, such a titanic battle was not apparently destined to be (LOTSW effectively did the recount thing tho). Regardless of this feed-back, thank you very much to King Gillibran for running poll, and the consistently higher numbers we've had voting.
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Post by pip on Feb 10, 2023 11:57:22 GMT
Having seen the results of the previous polls, it's really no surprise that Deathtrap Dungeon would win this one, although such a landslide victory is more surprising. It makes one wonder how much "vote fixing" went on when the polls' results were visible.
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 10, 2023 12:46:30 GMT
Having seen the results of the previous polls, it's really no surprise that Deathtrap Dungeon would win this one, although such a landslide victory is more surprising. It makes one wonder how much "vote fixing" went on when the polls' results were visible. openly stated that he switched votes in the hope of getting Star Strider to pass Sky Lord in terms of votes (  ) but as you say I suspect there may have been more than that. For me it would have been perhaps as important to have a fixed date when voting would stop - Legend Of The Shadow Warriors could easily have came second and then closed the gap under alternate circumstances. Legend did seriously well given it was not by the two founders and was also a much later FF (meaning fewer people will have had access to it or read it). I don't see how there's anything special to be gained by voting for an FF that isn't your own favourite but that's my view. |
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Post by hallucination on Feb 10, 2023 14:26:53 GMT
Guilty as charged. But I can’t remember what I un-voted for; in that poll, 4 books stood out for me among that selection, and there were many books that could’ve taken my 5th slot. Star Strider included.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Feb 10, 2023 14:40:00 GMT
In some ways the premise trumps the actual gameplay. The book is very hard if played by the rules. Also it is very linear.
As an alternative Citadel is totally fair with minimal attributes and you can play the book differently if you have very strong attributes especially the ending.
I have enjoyed this very much but I feel the project from some time ago reflected really considered opinions. This felt like knock out whist by comparison.
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 10, 2023 15:00:13 GMT
I have enjoyed this very much but I feel the project from some time ago reflected really considered opinions. This felt like knock out whist by comparison. Which project do you mean - Wilf's FF ranking by PM, or the gamebook ranking by author, or both? While I agree Wilf's ranking by PM is probably 'king of the ring' I have learned interesting things in both the other polls.. Ian Livingstone continues to divide and confound, some FF seem to be more popular than expected and others less so. Think we've had good numbers of people voting but ultimately polls like 'best of the worst' where voting is often under 10 provide only limited value. I know I sometimes voted in terms of author or founder rather than particular quality, while others have their own favouritism, maybe in terms of preferred genre or personal dislike - which is interesting but perhaps doesn't get the best results.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Feb 10, 2023 15:32:04 GMT
I have enjoyed this very much but I feel the project from some time ago reflected really considered opinions. This felt like knock out whist by comparison. Which project do you mean - Wilf's FF ranking by PM, or the gamebook ranking by author, or both? While I agree Wilf's ranking by PM is probably 'king of the ring' I have learned interesting things in both the other polls.. Ian Livingstone continues to divide and confound, some FF seem to be more popular than expected and others less so. Think we've had good numbers of people voting but ultimately polls like 'best of the worst' where voting is often under 10 provide only limited value. I know I sometimes voted in terms of author or founder rather than particular quality, while others have their own favouritism, maybe in terms of preferred genre or personal dislike - which is interesting but perhaps doesn't get the best results.
The 'king of the ring' as you put it seemed more considered. |
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Post by petch on Feb 10, 2023 17:03:01 GMT
I quite like that the various 'best FF' polls that pop up over the years tend to result in different winners. Among the books that have taken the crown in the past we've seen Howl of the Werewolf (twice - in the Fighting Fantazine poll and in an eliminator series of polls tyrion ran that were quite similar to this one), Slaves of the Abyss (Wilf's rankings) and Legend of the Shadow Warriors (my by-author polls). I think Deathtrap Dungeon is a worthy addition to that list. Thanks for running the polls King Gillibran, they have been a lot of fun  |
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Post by hallucination on Feb 11, 2023 8:40:50 GMT
Looking again through the results of the final 5 polls, we see something kinda interesting (to me anyways).
In the final 5 poll, Legend of the Shadow Warriors wins, with DD second. Howl of Werewolf third, and House of Hell fourth. City of Thieves gets the boot.
In the final 4 poll, DD overtakes Shadow Warriors, and House of Hell overtakes Howl of the Werewolf. Both changes presumably due to the five extra voters and reallocation from the City of Thieves fans
In the final 3 poll, House of Hell then overtakes Legend. Roughly same number of voters in this poll as the prior poll (well, one less). Presumably then, Howl fans that weren't already voting for House of Hell switched to it : FF horror fans are loyal! I certainly didn't predict this outcome based on the final-5 poll, but was amazed House of Hell could climb the ranks like that (i should show my hand: i voted for it throughout these final polls, except for only DD in the top 2 poll)
Let me add to the chorus thanking King Gillibran for running these polls! cheers!
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Post by King Gillibran on Feb 11, 2023 9:50:01 GMT
Well congratulations Deathtrap Dungeon! (Yeeeeeessssssss!!!! I knew you could do it!) I hope you enjoyed these polls. I would like to know if you like the idea of a short run of polls for showing roughly how many people have different adventures. so 4 polls of 20 plus maybe another one for additional FF franchise like Titan and you have 20 votes and you vote for all the products you own. Would that be enjoyed? It would be an interesting comparison!
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Post by petch on Feb 11, 2023 11:04:16 GMT
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Post by zimgief on Feb 11, 2023 11:28:20 GMT
Could you provide a complete ranking based on all the votes? It would be great!
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Post by King Gillibran on Feb 11, 2023 11:58:09 GMT
This isn't quite what I am planning! |
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Post by King Gillibran on Feb 11, 2023 11:58:26 GMT
Could you provide a complete ranking based on all the votes? It would be great! I'll Try! |
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 11, 2023 15:06:24 GMT
This isn't quite what I am planning! You see, if no one else is, I'm tempted to do just such a poll.. However, there's a big issue with definition. I know I often just took FF books out library (and renewed and re-renewed and re-renewed them), or alternatively owned a lot of FF a few years ago and then sold it at some point.
What appeals to me about it is asking whether people owned or have played or read non-gamebook FF such as Trolltooth Wars and other novel FF, RPG FF, Titan, Out Of The Pit, Advanced FF RPG modules, and less well-known stuff, of which the big one I can think of off the top of my head is sci-fi RPG FF. If there hasn't been a previous poll along those lines, that is the direction I'd take it (I think one of the above is in the ballpark but isn't as big as I'd like).
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Post by King Gillibran on Feb 15, 2023 12:22:08 GMT
1 Deathtrap Dungeon 2 House of Hell
3 Legend of the Shadow Warriors
4 Howl of the Werewolf
5 City of Thieves
6 Creature of Havoc
7 = Vault of the Vampire
7 = Moonrunner
9 Dead of Night
10 Night of the Necromancer
11 Slaves of the Abyss
12 = Talisman of Death
12 = Siege of Sardath
14 = Stormslayer
14 = The Seven Serpents
16 Master of Chaos
17 = Sword of the Samurai
17 = Khare: Cityport of Traps 19 Black Vein Prophecy
20 Trail of Champions 21 Citadel of Chaos
22 Crown of Kings
23 Temple of Terror
24 Beneath Nightmare Castle
25 = Spectral Stalkers
25 = Night Dragon
27 Secrets of Salamonis 28 Portal of Evil
29 The Shamutanti Hills
30 = Demons of the Deep
30 = Phantoms of Fear
32 Knights of Doom
33 Bloodbones
34 = Scorpion Swamp
34 = Stealer of Souls
36 = Return to Firetop Mountain
36 = Legend of Zagor
38 Shadow of the Giants
39 = Island of the Lizard King
39 = Caverns of the Snow Witch
41 Crypt of the Sorcerer
42 Appointment With F.E.A.R.
43 = Masks of Mayhem
43 = The Keep of the Lich Lord
43 = The Crimson Tide
43 = Spellbreaker
43 = Magehunter
48 = Warlock of Firetop Mountain
48 = Forest of Doom
50 House of Hell (Warlock Mini)
51 = Robot Commando
51 = Midnight Rogue
51 = Armies of Death
54 = Seas of Blood
54 = Island of the Undead
54 = Curse of the Mummy
57 Assassins of Allansia
58 Daggers of Darkness
59 = Space Assassin
59 = Rebel Planet 61 Tower of Destruction
62 Rings of Kether
63 = Battleblade Warrior
63 = Revenge of the Vampire
65 Freeway Fighter
66 Crystal of Storms
67 Fangs of Fury 68 Eye of the Dragon
69 = Starship Traveller
69 = Sky Lord
69 = Port of Peril
72 = Star Strider
72 = Chasms of Malice
72 = Deathmoor
75 Blood of the Zombies
76 Caverns of the Snow Witch (Warlock Mini)
77 The Warlocks Way
78 = The Warriors Way
78 = Gates of Death
80 Eye of the Dragon (Mini Version)
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Post by King Gillibran on Feb 15, 2023 12:22:51 GMT
The worst ranked gamebook is Gates of Death Sorry Charlie Higson It isn't a good book!
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 15, 2023 15:35:08 GMT
After a debate elsewhere about City Of Thieves it seems to have come 5th place in spite of some technical criticisms. Well done! And special praise for Stephen Hand and Jon Green for writing the only two FFs not by the two founders to be in top 5. Poor old Clash Of The Princes, almost last except for Gates Of Death and an obscure mini FF no one will have read. Is that why it was last, just because no one has owned or read it? I think that might be a factor, and I don't think the writing is exactly above criticism, but primarily I agree with someone else here who suggested it was just bland and not fun to play. By the way, prying the corpse of the argument about COT out of its grave, who ever said it was brilliant and over-criticised, that is the way I feel about Creature Of Havoc, which I would have thought deserves higher than 6th, maybe 2nd. Perhaps I'm wanting to have my cake and eat it, not respecting Livingstone fanboys but loving a book full of Jackson tropes - who knows.
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Post by scouserob on Feb 15, 2023 16:38:52 GMT
It is good to see the newest couple of books having a decent upper-mid table showing.
Their position seems to demonstrate a significant improvement on the other new Scholastic books which, I think, are all in the bottom third excepting Assassins of Allansia in 57th.
I'm with the majority, it seems, with Deathtrap Dungeon as my favourite. 👍🏼
I'm guessing, if I'm anything to go by, generally the lower the book number the more well known it is (with obvious exceptions like Creature of Havoc).
I'm afraid every book between Creature of Havoc and Blood of the Zombies was handicapped somewhat, at least by me (and probably others) never having tried them. 🤷🏻♂️
A big thank you to King Gillibran for hosting these polls. I enjoyed them. 😀
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Post by King Gillibran on Feb 16, 2023 8:07:47 GMT
I am happy to run more if people wish!
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.
. Further edit: I think I didn't read\simply disregarded the word next.
) but as you say I suspect there may have been more than that. For me it would have been perhaps as important to have a fixed date when voting would stop - Legend Of The Shadow Warriors could easily have came second and then closed the gap under alternate circumstances. Legend did seriously well given it was not by the two founders and was also a much later FF (meaning fewer people will have had access to it or read it). I don't see how there's anything special to be gained by voting for an FF that isn't your own favourite but that's my view.
