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Post by misomiso on Nov 20, 2022 15:51:21 GMT
Which version of teh book has the least errors in it, but also has the original art? Looking online it's tough to tell as some of the Wizard editions had rules issues. Did they correct errors in later printings of the early editions? Ty
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Post by a moderator on Nov 20, 2022 16:05:29 GMT
The Puffin edition has the correct rules, but lacks a crucial textual cue. The first Wizard reissue includes the cue omitted from the Puffin edition, but gets some of the rules wrong. The second Wizard reissue retains the incorrect rules, and is also missing the textual cue.
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Post by misomiso on Nov 21, 2022 7:43:57 GMT
The Puffin edition has the correct rules, but lacks a crucial textual cue. The first Wizard reissue includes the cue omitted from the Puffin edition, but gets some of the rules wrong. The second Wizard reissue retains the incorrect rules, and is also missing the textual cue. Haha! Very annoying!
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 105
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on Feb 22, 2023 11:15:34 GMT
Another thought (they seem to appear at random times)…
Think it has been discussed already that, after Weaseltongue/Whiteleaf gives you the hint of the Galleykeep traps, you can still fall on them and be shoved into a guillotine and killed. Shouldn't this have been handled a bit better, something like "due to Weaseltongue's help, if you get yourself caught in a trap, subtract 30 from the reference you are on and turn to the new reference", or is it SJ's "one and only true path, deviate from it and die" routine all over again?
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 22, 2023 11:56:03 GMT
Another thought (they seem to appear at random times)… Think it has been discussed already that, after Weaseltongue/Whiteleaf gives you the hint of the Galleykeep traps, you can still fall on them and be shoved into a guillotine and killed. Shouldn't this have been handled a bit better, something like "due to Weaseltongue's help, if you get yourself caught in a trap, subtract 30 from the reference you are on and turn to the new reference", or is it SJ's "one and only true path, deviate from it and die" routine all over again? Weaseltongue advises\warns you there are traps which is why it's best to go into the undergrowth route rather than through clearings. From a narrative pov I imagine these traps are well-designed, and from an author pov, as you say Jackson could be an unforgiving author especially at that time of writing. It would be narratively complicated and even clumsy to add something along the lines of what you've suggested, especially since the outcome(s) would either be "d'oh, Weaseltongue warned me about these, and now I'm going to die!" or "Weaseltongue warned me about these, <possible test to avoid trap> better take the other route". Then there's the long argument that he deliberately wouldn't even tell you a reference link when he should have done, which would only imply he wouldn't when he had the choice. Basically at that time FF like D&D was\could be a tough unforgiving beast, and IIRC SJ has said that at that time he set out to make Creature Of Havoc challenging (no source I'm afraid).
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 105
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on Feb 24, 2023 16:15:12 GMT
It would be narratively complicated and even clumsy to add something along the lines of what you've suggested, especially since the outcome(s) would either be "d'oh, Weaseltongue warned me about these, and now I'm going to die!" or "Weaseltongue warned me about these, <possible test to avoid trap> better take the other route". If you were warned by Weaseltongue about them, you would know that they were one of the two ways of getting into the Galleykeep and having the chance of meeting Zharradan Marr (the other ends up being a red herring, but that's another story), so in theory you would behave like you do on (341) - the only difference is that in that situation you see the trap before falling on it. From what I understand after reading those paragraphs, if you see the trap before, you get caught on it willingly and wait patiently to be loaded into the ship; if you don't see it and "your frustration grows", you get caught on it unwillingly and cannot remember what Weaseltongue mentioned earlier, thus ending as meat for the ship's crew. Well... you are a creature, so perhaps it makes sense, despite having developed a bit of wisdom earlier on. Am I overthinking this much?
Also, yet another thought: inside the Galleykeep and if you choose the wrong door at the hallway, you get locked inside a room and starve. But aren't you being hunted by a group of Hobgoblins after your roaring entrance into the ship? Or they know better than to enter a room with a door that cannot be opened from the outside? Also, that door is stated to have no handle when you enter, but in the illustration for (312) all five doors have handles (yes, I'm getting very picky).
PS: despite being described as "serpent-faced" by a guard earlier on, I look at "my" shadow and can only imagine "me" being shaped like Jabba the Hutt, forcryssakes.
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 24, 2023 16:49:25 GMT
It would be narratively complicated and even clumsy to add something along the lines of what you've suggested, especially since the outcome(s) would either be "d'oh, Weaseltongue warned me about these, and now I'm going to die!" or "Weaseltongue warned me about these, <possible test to avoid trap> better take the other route". If you were warned by Weaseltongue about them, you would know that they were one of the two ways of getting into the Galleykeep and having the chance of meeting Zharradan Marr (the other ends up being a red herring, but that's another story), so in theory you would behave like you do on (341) - the only difference is that in that situation you see the trap before falling on it. From what I understand after reading those paragraphs, if you see the trap before, you get caught on it willingly and wait patiently to be loaded into the ship; if you don't see it and "your frustration grows", you get caught on it unwillingly and cannot remember what Weaseltongue mentioned earlier, thus ending as meat for the ship's crew. Well... you are a creature, so perhaps it makes sense, despite having developed a bit of wisdom earlier on. Am I overthinking this much?
Also, yet another thought: inside the Galleykeep and if you choose the wrong door at the hallway, you get locked inside a room and starve. But aren't you being hunted by a group of Hobgoblins after your roaring entrance into the ship? Or they know better than to enter a room with a door that cannot be opened from the outside? Also, that door is stated to have no handle when you enter, but in the illustration for (312) all five doors have handles (yes, I'm getting very picky).
PS: despite being described as "serpent-faced" by a guard earlier on, I look at "my" shadow and can only imagine "me" being shaped like Jabba the Hutt, forcryssakes.
I think Jackson sort of gives the nod\acknowledgement about Weaseltongue's words when he writes something like "you will meet Zharradan Marr on the Galleykeep, all right, where you will become meat for the crew". Getting caught by Zharradan Marr even sounds like a much worse, semi-unworkable plan than sneaking aboard unnoticed, whether or not Weaseltongue acknowledges it. Like your point about the handle (which is technically true, presumably because the illustrator didn't read the FF particularly carefully) I think you might be overthinking what is ultimately a kids' book. Your point about the Galleykeep would perhaps equally apply to the Quimmel Bone room, where a high Skill creature could be loudly fighting Quimmel Bone for hours, going unnoticed. I think both rooms are incredibly dangerous, not to say important, and probably out-of-bounds (with good cause, as you say) just for Hobgoblins. Perhaps it would make sense for Hobgoblins to come, just like it would make sense for you to have two or three tests when the Elf comes in to save yourself, and then special reference(s) at the end giving you one of these failed victories we sometimes write about, but that would both be complicated and not particularly fit the dark spirit of the FF.
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Post by a moderator on Feb 25, 2023 2:02:34 GMT
your point about the handle (which is technically true, presumably because the illustrator didn't read the FF particularly carefully) It's probable that the illustrator was working from a brief rather than the finished text (I remember once reading an interview with Stephen Hand in which he talked about writing Martin McKenna a very detailed description of what the illustration for section 80 of Legend of the Shadow Warriors needed to show), so the error might not be Alan Langford's fault. Even if the whole book had already been written by the time the artist was told what needed drawing, section 312 says nothing about handles or the absence thereof. It's a little unreasonable to expect an illustrator who's working to a deadline to read the whole book on the off-chance that some page that isn't getting a picture might mention a significant detail that was omitted from the information provided regarding what to draw.
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Post by adrius on Mar 4, 2023 9:04:22 GMT
Anyone understood the context of the "gestures" given by the guard at the end of the dungeon (after Darramouss)? Why would it be that giving a gesture would earn the guard's ire, but not giving a gesture would earn a pass?
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Post by terrysalt on Mar 4, 2023 10:03:03 GMT
Anyone understood the context of the "gestures" given by the guard at the end of the dungeon (after Darramouss)? Why would it be that giving a gesture would earn the guard's ire, but not giving a gesture would earn a pass? From memory, if you make a gesture, you make the wrong one (since you have no idea what the right one is). If you make no gesture at all, he thinks Darramouss never gave you a gesture and goes to investigate what happened.
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Post by Wizard Slayer on Mar 4, 2023 10:08:04 GMT
Because it's a bluff. The guard is suspicious, so asks for the gesture, knowing full well that there is no secret gesture. If you make one, it proves that you're lying.
I think it's a bluff and there is no gesture, because of the italicised emphasis given to the word in the text.
By shrugging and making no gesture, the guard is more taken in, because he knows there is no gesture. Otherwise, no gesture would mean no pass.
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Post by CharlesX on Mar 4, 2023 14:09:03 GMT
Anyone understood the context of the "gestures" given by the guard at the end of the dungeon (after Darramouss)? Why would it be that giving a gesture would earn the guard's ire, but not giving a gesture would earn a pass?Dealing with the last part of your point, I'm led to believe he's a corrupt and crafty guard who just wants an excuse for a bribe to let you through, I generally think out of the two theories given Wizard Slayer's hypothesis is more likely than Terrysalt's own on, and furthermore he makes a perhaps nominal effort to check if Darramous has heard of you and is happy and hungry to accept a trade\bribe to let you through so long as you don't attack, try to escape, or make up a gesture. What I'm saying is the guard gives you a couple of chances to prove you are an enemy, and if you don't do that, he's OK with a trade to let you through.
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Post by soulreaver on Apr 27, 2023 0:41:16 GMT
Been reading the Titannica entries for this, but only own the Puffin edition. Does anyone have access to the 1st and 2nd Wizard edition of this book? Been trying to find it everywhere.
I'm interested in the exact wording it used for some of its changes, specifically: 1. How does the 2nd Wizard release explain the 'Instant Death' rule? I hear it actually mentions that it reduces a target's Stamina either to zero OR to whatever will take you to the next paragraph (whereas the Puffin edition just says you kill your enemy, which doesn't always make sense in the book) 2. What exact text does the Wizard 1st edition use for the infamous 213 paragraph? 3. It sounds like the Wizard 1st edition modified the explanation of the code given in 283 - I personally found the explanation in the Puffin edition confusing as all heck and only figured it out after reading about it elsewhere on the internet (because, it turns out, it tells you how to convert legible text into the cypher, whereas I thought it was telling me how to turn the cypher into legible text). Does Wizard 1st Edition explain it differently? What exactly does it say?
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Post by a moderator on Apr 27, 2023 9:58:09 GMT
1. How does the 2nd Wizard release explain the 'Instant Death' rule? I hear it actually mentions that it reduces a target's Stamina either to zero OR to whatever will take you to the next paragraph (whereas the Puffin edition just says you kill your enemy, which doesn't always make sense in the book) 2. What exact text does the Wizard 1st edition use for the infamous 213 paragraph? 3. It sounds like the Wizard 1st edition modified the explanation of the code given in 283 - I personally found the explanation in the Puffin edition confusing as all heck and only figured it out after reading about it elsewhere on the internet (because, it turns out, it tells you how to convert legible text into the cypher, whereas I thought it was telling me how to turn the cypher into legible text). Does Wizard 1st Edition explain it differently? What exactly does it say? 1. The 2nd Wizard release adds a paragraph to say that if there's an instruction to turn to a different section when an opponent is reduced to a specific Stamina, rolling a double brings your enemy's Stamina down to that target score. 2. Apart from the opening sentence, which has been changed to 'You find yourself at a dead end.' the text is identical to the original version. Well, if you want to be really picky, the lines on the page now end in different words, with the knock-on effect that 'difficult' is no longer split across two lines by a hyphen, but a line-breaking hyphen has been added after the 'i' of 'possible'. 3. Paragraph 283 has not been changed between the Puffin edition and either Wizard release.
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Post by soulreaver on Apr 27, 2023 11:57:57 GMT
1. How does the 2nd Wizard release explain the 'Instant Death' rule? I hear it actually mentions that it reduces a target's Stamina either to zero OR to whatever will take you to the next paragraph (whereas the Puffin edition just says you kill your enemy, which doesn't always make sense in the book) 2. What exact text does the Wizard 1st edition use for the infamous 213 paragraph? 3. It sounds like the Wizard 1st edition modified the explanation of the code given in 283 - I personally found the explanation in the Puffin edition confusing as all heck and only figured it out after reading about it elsewhere on the internet (because, it turns out, it tells you how to convert legible text into the cypher, whereas I thought it was telling me how to turn the cypher into legible text). Does Wizard 1st Edition explain it differently? What exactly does it say? 1. The 2nd Wizard release adds a paragraph to say that if there's an instruction to turn to a different section when an opponent is reduced to a specific Stamina, rolling a double brings your enemy's Stamina down to that target score. 2. Apart from the opening sentence, which has been changed to 'You find yourself at a dead end.' the text is identical to the original version. Well, if you want to be really picky, the lines on the page now end in different words, with the knock-on effect that 'difficult' is no longer split across two lines by a hyphen, but a line-breaking hyphen has been added after the 'i' of 'possible'. 3. Paragraph 283 has not been changed between the Puffin edition and either Wizard release. Thank you - do you have the exact text for (1)?
Regarding (3), there's a Titannica errata entry that says: "In the Puffin and Wizard Series 2 editions, the instructions for translating the scrambled language sections presented in (283) are themselves scrambled. Instead of replacing the vowels in each text with the following letter, instead try to find any vowel coming before certain consonants (i.e. "b" becomes "a", "j" becomes "i", and so on)." This made it sound like there was an alternative explanation of the rules in Wizard Series 1 and/or the Scholastic releases... is this errata entry wrong?
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Post by a moderator on Apr 27, 2023 16:10:38 GMT
1. The 2nd Wizard release adds a paragraph to say that if there's an instruction to turn to a different section when an opponent is reduced to a specific Stamina, rolling a double brings your enemy's Stamina down to that target score. 2. Apart from the opening sentence, which has been changed to 'You find yourself at a dead end.' the text is identical to the original version. Well, if you want to be really picky, the lines on the page now end in different words, with the knock-on effect that 'difficult' is no longer split across two lines by a hyphen, but a line-breaking hyphen has been added after the 'i' of 'possible'. 3. Paragraph 283 has not been changed between the Puffin edition and either Wizard release. Thank you - do you have the exact text for (1)? “Some battles are accompanied by an instruction to turn to a new page once your opponent reaches a certain stamina level. If this is the case, when you roll a double, your monstrous blow simply reduces your opponent’s stamina to this value.” (Lack of capitalisation on ‘stamina’ as in the text). I’ve checked every copy of Creature in the room (Puffin sawtooth, Puffin gold dragon, Wizard series 1, Wizard series 2), and 283 reads the same in each. My best guess regarding the Titannica entry is that whoever wrote the bit about the instructions for translation didn’t have a Wizard series 1 edition. If they knew that 213 had been corrected in the W1 printing and reverted in W2, they might have thought it possible that W1 also included clearer translation instructions, and thus omitted to mention that edition when pointing out the misleading nature of the instructions in the editions to which they could refer, not thinking that other readers might take the lack of mention as indicating that W1 was different.
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Post by soulreaver on Apr 28, 2023 9:21:35 GMT
Thank you - do you have the exact text for (1)? “Some battles are accompanied by an instruction to turn to a new page once your opponent reaches a certain stamina level. If this is the case, when you roll a double, your monstrous blow simply reduces your opponent’s stamina to this value.” (Lack of capitalisation on ‘stamina’ as in the text). I’ve checked every copy of Creature in the room (Puffin sawtooth, Puffin gold dragon, Wizard series 1, Wizard series 2), and 283 reads the same in each. My best guess regarding the Titannica entry is that whoever wrote the bit about the instructions for translation didn’t have a Wizard series 1 edition. If they knew that 213 had been corrected in the W1 printing and reverted in W2, they might have thought it possible that W1 also included clearer translation instructions, and thus omitted to mention that edition when pointing out the misleading nature of the instructions in the editions to which they could refer, not thinking that other readers might take the lack of mention as indicating that W1 was different. Thanks heaps for this, it's very useful. I really wish I could understand some of Wizard's editing decisions, but I think in most cases the true answer is "they didn't really care/think about it very hard". Still better than Scholastic though.
I think the Titannica entry might have been written by someone who got confused by the same thing I did (ie, they thought the instructions were for how to decode scrambled text, rather than how legible text gets scrambled). I do think those instructions in the book are rather poorly written...
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Post by sakuratwister on Jul 19, 2023 2:32:56 GMT
I've always wondered what could technically happen after the ending of the book. "Marr's brainless creatures will respect your authority", the text says. But what about the inhabitants in some of the other rooms? The Weather Mage mentioned that wanted to be dropped off at Blacksand after reaching Dree. The "Master of Hellfire" seems to be another powerful undead creature of unknown origin. And I doubt Quimmel Bone would be friendly to us either.
I suppose we'll keep the last Vapour safe somewhere in our cabin.
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Post by CharlesX on Jul 19, 2023 7:36:44 GMT
I've always wondered what could technically happen after the ending of the book. "Marr's brainless creatures will respect your authority", the text says. But what about the inhabitants in some of the other rooms? The Weather Mage mentioned that wanted to be dropped off at Blacksand after reaching Dree. The "Master of Hellfire" seems to be another powerful undead creature of unknown origin. And I doubt Quimmel Bone would be friendly to us either. I suppose we'll keep the last Vapour safe somewhere in our cabin. Interesting point. Basing what they'd do on the D&D alignment system, creatures that are Chaotic Evil ("Marr's brainless creatures") not only don't care who is in authority but probably don't even think about it. A Chaotic Neutral creature, which I will generously and probably untruthfully say the "Master Of Hellfire" is, might be most interested in getting paid and keen to be on the winning side anyway. A misunderstood\Chaotic Good creature wouldn't bother going on a pointless (and possibly unsuccessful) campaign, and might be hopeful you'd have their interests at heart instead of being just a run-of-the-mill charlatan like Zharradan Marr or however you spell it.
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Post by vastariner on Jul 19, 2023 16:48:07 GMT
Well, how did they all get on the Galleykeep in the first place? Either you are a total arse who got out-evilled by Marr, or he launched a takeover that resulted in him bringing in allies that ousted yours - so surely you bring your own dudes and dudesses back? Float to the Singing Bridge to get Nicodemus to do to Quimmel Bone what he failed to do to Zanbar, after all he owes you one.
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Post by CharlesX on Jul 19, 2023 19:16:38 GMT
Well, how did they all get on the Galleykeep in the first place? Either you are a total arse who got out-evilled by Marr, or he launched a takeover that resulted in him bringing in allies that ousted yours - so surely you bring your own dudes and dudesses back? Float to the Singing Bridge to get Nicodemus to do to Quimmel Bone what he failed to do to Zanbar, after all he owes you one. I agree to a large extent but my counter-point is Chaotic creatures tend to be self-interested which means they will find it difficult to band together, or to find the motivation to do that, let alone go on some campaign to topple you. And as you mention the text itself refers to "Marr's brainless creatures" which might mean a high 90s% of Marr's army who don't have brains like the Weather Mage Thugruff Quimmel Bone Master Of Hellfire etc. who as a minority would find it harder to challenge you, probably made harder by Marr's evilness and divide-and-conquer tactics that he might use. Perhaps the smart-but-not-genius ones like Thugruff and Quimmel Bone have a spell over them like the Blake's Seven-esque Droneweed. Of course if you go via the true path or for that matter any path where you don't die or even become a slave you don't meet Quimmel Bone, so killing someone you've never met seems harsh to me. One wonders whether he is just a weird Shipman-style sadist who kills half of his patients or just doesn't like you because of your marrangha condition (r*c*st).
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Post by a moderator on Jul 19, 2023 21:05:11 GMT
Well, how did they all get on the Galleykeep in the first place? Either you are a total arse who got out-evilled by Marr, or he launched a takeover that resulted in him bringing in allies that ousted yours - so surely you bring your own dudes and dudesses back? Float to the Singing Bridge to get Nicodemus to do to Quimmel Bone what he failed to do to Zanbar, after all he owes you one. You make it sound so easy. Despite the overconfident assertion that Marr's subjects will respect your authority, the reality of your situation is that you are alone and naked, with a mob of Hobgoblins about to burst into the room (as per section 302), with no time or opportunity to go calling on any allies who weren't either slaughtered in Marr's takeover or Marranghaed into other species and relocated to the Yellowstone Mines (and, in at least some instances, subsequently killed by you in foul creature mode).
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Post by terrysalt on Jul 19, 2023 21:19:41 GMT
I think the hobgoblins will see the giant 460 floating over your head and realise "Damn, this guy won the entire book!" and then be so impressed they immediately fall into line.
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Post by a moderator on Jul 19, 2023 22:35:12 GMT
You find yourself in the thread for discussion of the book, as this topic doesn't really relate to the solution.
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Post by vastariner on Jul 19, 2023 22:51:34 GMT
Well, how did they all get on the Galleykeep in the first place? Either you are a total arse who got out-evilled by Marr, or he launched a takeover that resulted in him bringing in allies that ousted yours - so surely you bring your own dudes and dudesses back? Float to the Singing Bridge to get Nicodemus to do to Quimmel Bone what he failed to do to Zanbar, after all he owes you one. You make it sound so easy. Despite the overconfident assertion that Marr's subjects will respect your authority, the reality of your situation is that you are alone and naked, with a mob of Hobgoblins about to burst into the room (as per section 302), with no time or opportunity to go calling on any allies who weren't either slaughtered in Marr's takeover or Marranghaed into other species and relocated to the Yellowstone Mines (and, in at least some instances, subsequently killed by you in foul creature mode). I think my assumption was that to be the captain of the Galleykeep meant you were fairly powerful as a sorceror or had some other phenomenal power, so not quite as helpless. After all, even as a creature of limited intellect, you manage to win through...
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Post by CharlesX on Jul 20, 2023 6:07:42 GMT
Well, how did they all get on the Galleykeep in the first place? Either you are a total arse who got out-evilled by Marr, or he launched a takeover that resulted in him bringing in allies that ousted yours - so surely you bring your own dudes and dudesses back? Float to the Singing Bridge to get Nicodemus to do to Quimmel Bone what he failed to do to Zanbar, after all he owes you one. You make it sound so easy. Despite the overconfident assertion that Marr's subjects will respect your authority, the reality of your situation is that you are alone and naked, with a mob of Hobgoblins about to burst into the room (as per section 302), with no time or opportunity to go calling on any allies who weren't either slaughtered in Marr's takeover or Marranghaed into other species and relocated to the Yellowstone Mines (and, in at least some instances, subsequently killed by you in foul creature mode). So what you're saying (effectively) is after besting Darramous, the threat of being under a sorcero's control creature spell, the Toadmen, Zharradan Marr himself and more you are abruptly knifed. Realistic but I prefer Jackson's words. It may not be 100% truthful but I think some subtext about the gamebook is that you are not just marranghaed but into a particularly ugly-looking species, which might be why most creatures instantly vehemently dislike you. I also suggest that you might be putting some confidence in Marr, and that if Marr isn't particularly liked it * isn't unreasonable * that after he retreats into God-knows-where and any spell making the Galleykeep creatures ser'e him is broken they will just serve whoever is there - that is what "brainless and chaotic" means. Alternate ending "You gave Zharradan Marr the mercy he deserved - none! Just then the hobgoblins that were looking for you burst in the room. In spite of their master Zharradan being dead and you looking like an entirely different species, without hesitation they attack you and kill you. Still, you think before you die, I guess this beats becoming one of Zharradan's lieutenants". Dark .
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Post by a moderator on Jul 20, 2023 12:16:52 GMT
Your conception of chaos seems a bit too orderly. While the Hobgoblins aren't going to recognise that the puny, defenceless human in the room is/was the fearsome brute they've come to slaughter, they're more likely to kill him without a second thought just for being in the way than to pull up and say, "Sorry, sir, didn't realise you were in here. Tell me, have you seen any massive scaly monstrosities around here? No? Fair enough. Well, how can we be of assistance?"
If Marr's magic was helping keep them in check, I think it more likely that, once that magic stopped working, chaotic creatures would rapidly descend into looting, pillaging, in-fighting and general mayhem (during which our hero could easily become collateral damage) than that they'd immediately submit to the leadership of a (from their perspective) random unimpressive human.
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Post by CharlesX on Jul 20, 2023 13:01:02 GMT
Your conception of chaos seems a bit too orderly. While the Hobgoblins aren't going to recognise that the puny, defenceless human in the room is/was the fearsome brute they've come to slaughter, they're more likely to kill him without a second thought just for being in the way than to pull up and say, "Sorry, sir, didn't realise you were in here. Tell me, have you seen any massive scaly monstrosities around here? No? Fair enough. Well, how can we be of assistance?" If Marr's magic was helping keep them in check, I think it more likely that, once that magic stopped working, chaotic creatures would rapidly descend into looting, pillaging, in-fighting and general mayhem (during which our hero could easily become collateral damage) than that they'd immediately submit to the leadership of a (from their perspective) random unimpressive human. That sort of thing would have made for a very dark ending. Taking your second paragraph as a just-imaginable ending, I imagine Jackson would have rejected it for that reason, perhaps on the same basis a very-good-but-dark ending for Slaves For The Abyss was later rejected, I believe under Jackson's advice\influence. I agree with you more than not but I don't see it being accepted and perhaps understandably.
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Post by a moderator on Jul 20, 2023 14:39:30 GMT
I'm not saying I want a downbeat ending for the book - I just don't think the text makes a sufficiently convincing case for Marr's troops accepting you as boss.
Provide the hero with something that could plausibly intimidate or sorcerously compel them into submitting - some spoil of victory from destroying Darramouss, for instance - and I'd be more satisfied. And if you need a section or two to establish the McGuffin of Ultimate Victory's capabilities, you could always prune the Chaos Warrior loop to free up a couple of numbers.
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 105
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on Jul 21, 2023 15:28:56 GMT
the reality of your situation is that you are alone and naked IIRC,there is a cabinet with military uniforms in the room, so you could get dressed in a jiffy into a somewhat more imposing figure...
... that is, if the Hobgoblins give you enough time to dress something up. But that is kinda beside the point, anyway.
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