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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 2, 2023 15:21:22 GMT
I thought there would still be ongoing discussion regarding the last round for a couple more days, but it looks relatively quiet here. Any objections if I start my questions tomorrow night then?
Anyway, just a bit more info about my upcoming round:
- Like the previous time I hosted, the range of books used will be more limited, because I still don't own any of the Scholastic publications, so I'm afraid I'd have to leave those out.
- Deadline will be 3 weeks from the time the questions are posted.
- Unlike my previous host attempt, I won't be using any non-gamebooks (so no Out of the Pit, Titan, or FF/AFF RPG handbooks) in the answer range. However, ONE of the questions will reference information from Out of the Pit, so apologies to anyone who don't have that particular book on hand to refer to.
- I will be implementing a "bonus point" condition for the last few questions so that it would actually be potentially possible for a player to score less than 10 points this round. More details on that when I get to posting the questions.
Hope there's enough interest for this!
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 3, 2023 16:16:18 GMT
Alright, here are the next round of questions! First, the range of books eligible for your sources of answer:
The 59 Fighting Fantasy gamebooks first published by Puffin.
The 4 gamebooks in Steve Jackson's Sorcery! series.
The 6 Fighting Fantasy gamebooks first published by Wizard Books.
The Questions:
1. Name a gamebook in which it’s possible to have at least 3 swords in your possession at the same time. Identify the swords in question, if they have a specific name, or where you may acquire them if they are merely mundane generic swords.
2. Name a gamebook in which you may assume the form or appearance of a creature type that you can encounter in that same book. It has to be a different creature type of your default form (so a human PC disguised as another human doesn’t count).
3. Name a gamebook in which you may incur a LUCK penalty for killing unnecessarily or for killing a good or innocent being (the penalty must be directly and soley for the act itself, not as a result of something like looting a harmful/cursed item from the person you killed, or the dying person laying a magical spell or curse on you before its death, or springing a trap while searching his room, etc). Please reference the section number where the killing and penalty occurs for this answer.
4. Name a gamebook in which you may fight an opponent whom you cannot see. (It has to be in standard FF combat format with the opponent's SKILL and STAMINA listed.) Name or identify said opponent.
5. Name a gamebook in which you may have an ally that helps you in a battle and where a SKILL is provided for said ally to roll for their own Attack Strength. (Name or or otherwise identify both ally and opponent)
6. Name a gamebook in which you may carry around and/or open a portable-sized container that contains a creature inside. Reference the section where you either open or acquire said container.
7. Name a character who isn’t a god or a demon, that is mentioned by name in the text of a gamebook, but doesn't actually appear in that book, but does appear in another, different gamebook (name both gamebooks in question as well).
8. Name a gamebook in which it is possible for the PC to have a completely non-violent encounter with a creature whose type is listed as 'Hostile' in Out of the Pit. Identify the sequence of sections from the start of the encounter till its end without the creature ever attempting to attack you (and vice versa).
1) It has to be listed as ONLY Hostile. Creatures listed as 'Unfriendly-Hostile' or 'Neutral-Hostile', etc, do not qualify. 2) The creature has to be aware of the PC's presence. Sneaking past one does not count. 3) The creature must be able to recognize the PC's actual creature type (he cannot be disguised as a species that is friendly or neutral to it). 4) Scenarios where you offer a gift or assistance to gain its friendship are acceptable.
9. Identify TWO different creatures types, each from a different gamebook, that has 1 of the 4 major elements (Earth, Air, Fire or Water) as part of their name. The 2 names cannot contain the same element.
Bonus Condition: As long as none of the other players have named the exact same 2 creatures as you, your answer counts as unique. HOWEVER, if you manage to name 2 completely unique creatures that are not named by anyone else, you get to deduct 1 point from your total score.
10. Name a gamebook which does NOT feature any Orcs or undead creatures at all.
Bonus Condition: If you name a gamebook that is based in the world of Titan, you get to deduct 1 point from your total score - provided that the answer you give is both correct and unique. If your answer is duplicated by one or more players, you all get the usual penalty.
Deadline: It is actually past midnight on 4 November where I live, but I'm going to use GMT time as the reference deadline for everyone. It is now 3 November, 16:15 afternoon GMT. Please submit your answers to me by PM before 24 November, 16:15.
Thank you, and I hope you enjoy this round!
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Post by Peter on Nov 4, 2023 7:05:29 GMT
Oops. To quickly refer back:
Thanks greenspine. That was a good challenge.
After a promising start, we both ended up in the middle. Even with several unique answers.
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 7, 2023 4:30:53 GMT
Some clarification for Question 4: the opponent needs to be someone or something that can't be seen, not something that you actively choose not to look at while fighting it.
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 11, 2023 3:38:19 GMT
More clarifications: Question 9 is asking for the names of creature types, not the actual character name or his title/moniker. Anyway, only 2 sets of answers received thus far after the first week. Is that a record? Thank you petch and trialmaster for your participation!
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 13, 2023 3:53:26 GMT
Answers received from vastariner. Thank you!
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Post by Peter on Nov 14, 2023 5:56:25 GMT
I am working on it. This one is hard!
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 17, 2023 15:06:57 GMT
Answers received from evilwizard. Thank you.
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 18, 2023 3:03:25 GMT
Technically less than 1 week remaining, 4 sets of answers received thus far. However, I'm currently running into some issues with my home desktop PC. I'm definitely hoping to resolve it by the next weekend, although if I can't, answers may be delayed a few days, as I don't relish making long posts on my phone. If that happens I may consider allowing extension of the deadline. Also apologies if I can't respond fast to pms during that period. I always knew downgrading to Windows 11 was a bad idea - I can't in good conscience call it an upgrade because things were so much smoother while I was on Windows 10. Kept declining the offered update for months until until earlier this week when it decided to auto-update to the new version without asking me.
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 22, 2023 4:42:20 GMT
Clarification: for Question 9, I would require the creature itself (for both elements) to be featured in the book, not just mentioned by name in the text.
For Question 2, I do not consider different sub-types as the same creature type. So for example, disguising yourself as a Woof Elf while you can encounter a Dark Elf in the same book does qualify, even though they're both elves.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,466
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 22, 2023 14:24:21 GMT
For Question 2, I do not consider different sub-types as the same creature type. So for example, disguising yourself as a Woof Elf while you can encounter a Dark Elf in the same book does qualify, even though they're both elves. Should that be 'doesn't qualify'?
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 23, 2023 0:32:49 GMT
For Question 2, I do not consider different sub-types as the same creature type. So for example, disguising yourself as a Woof Elf while you can encounter a Dark Elf in the same book does qualify, even though they're both elves. Should that be 'doesn't qualify'? Yes, it should. My bad. Also, answers received from Peter. Thank you!
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 23, 2023 12:45:15 GMT
Answers received from kieran. Thank you. That's 6, so far. Update: I haven't fully resolved the PC issues I mentioned, but I managed to get it in working condition for now. Will probably still send it for repair soon, but it should be able to last till the contest ends this weekend. There's now slightly more than a day left before deadline! (Also, have to admit, I'm already regretting setting Qn 10. The thing about setting a question about a book NOT featuring something is that I actually have to scour through the books thoroughly to make sure that there really are none of those things, instead of just using the reference given by players to verify a single section where something DOES exists.)
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 24, 2023 15:25:51 GMT
Answers received from greenspine. Thank you.
7 sets of answers, less than an hour to go!
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 25, 2023 5:20:25 GMT
Answers time! Well, at least for the first 3 questions. The rest will come later...
1. Name a gamebook in which it’s possible to have at least 3 swords in your possession at the same time. Identify the swords in question, if they have a specific name, or where you may acquire them if they are merely mundane generic swords.
The Seven Serpents (starting sword at the beginning of series, one from Glandragor in Shamutanti Hills, buy a broadsword at section 264 - and keep them all till book 3) - vastariner The Seven Serpents (Starting sword at beginning of series, sword from trader in Shamutanti Hills, Broadsword from Khare marketplace) kieran The Crown of Kings (starting sword at beginning of series, fine-edged broadsword from the merchant in Cantopani in the Shamutanti Hills, rusty cutlass from Nylock in Mampang) - Peter Eye of the Dragon (starting equipment ref 1, Skullsplitter sword ref 358, sword drawn from rock ref 185) - petch Tower of Destruction (Generic starting sword; magic sword (+1Sk) after defeating Man Orc Champion; Ice sword) - trialmaster Legend of Zagor (play as Braxus to start with a Sword, Orc Slayer Sword from Sir Bethel, magical two-handed Sword after defeating Dark Knight) - evilwizard Return to Firetop Mountain (the sword with which you start, Darkblade Skullbiter’s sword, and the Orc’s sword from section 227)
Oh dear, with so few players, I wasn't expecting a clash for this one. This was one of the questions with a fairly broad range of answers: Master of Chaos, Vault of the Vampire, Revenge of the Vampire, Island of the Undead...just to name the few off the top of my head that no one went for. Certainly more than enough for the number of players this round to find a safe one each.
Taking advantage of the Sorcery series where you can carry items across books is a clever idea, which 3 players went for. Unfortunately, 2 of them went for the same book, so even though they didn't identify the exact same swords, their direct answer is a duplicate, which puts them at the bottom of the ranking for now.
As I said above, I wasn't really expecting clashes on this question. The only minor 'gotcha' trap I intended for this one is for cases where the book explicitly states that you have to leave your current weapon behind if you pick up a new one.
I was slightly hesitant on petch's answer initially, because the book doesn't actually tell you to add the sword drawn from the rock to your possession, and it was more of a mechanism being used to open a hidden entrance, so it's not clear whether the PC would be carrying it around for use. However, since it was the last sword the PC actually picks up in terms of chronological order, that means he could be already carrying 2 other swords at the time he pulls the third sword out, so the action of him just pulling it out qualifies as him carrying a third sword, even if just for a brief moment, so I accepted the answer.
Ranking after Q1:
1) petch, trialmaster, Peter, evilwizard, greenspine (1) 6) vastariner, kieran (2)
2. Name a gamebook in which you may assume the form or appearance of a creature type that you can encounter in that same book. It has to be a different creature type of your default form (so a human PC disguised as another human doesn’t count).
Legend of Zagor (Zombie disguise) - evilwizard, kieran Starship Traveller (your mind is in a Dar-Villian's body ref 132) - petch Dead of Night (ref 128: disguised as Orc) - trialmaster Siege of Sardath (dark elf, 317) - vastariner Creature of Havoc (human at successful ending) - Peter Deathtrap Dungeon (using the Doppelganger Potion to impersonate a Troglodyte) - greenspine
This one, on the other hand, was intended to have a narrow range of answers, although the lack of players means that there was still only 1 clash. I rejected the first answer from Peter when he submitted the Seven Serpents where the PC uses the KID spell to assume the appearance of a Horned Demon while he can encounter a Rock Demon in the book. He actually had a third backup answer in the form of Legend of Zagor, but fortunately, I found his second answer to be acceptable, as he pointed out that human is NOT the PC's default form in this book, so it still qualifies under the rules stated. This is also a good thing for kieran and evilwizard, as all 3 of them would have clashed and picked up more points otherwise!
There had been a question in previous rounds that asked for instances where the PC was in disguise or changes form in any way. It was while I was looking for answers during that round when I got the idea to use it with a narrower definition of answer range, because it hit me that many of the possible answers for that round involve the PC being in disguise to avoid detection, and of course an effective way to do that is to "fit in" and be lost in a crowd of similar beings. Of course another likely source would be a transformation curse like Lycanthropy, where the affliction is caused by a creature of that particular form.
Other possible answers I can think of include Howl of the Werewolf (wolf form, of course), Vault of the Vampire (wolf, and bat), Phantoms of Fear (dark elf - I'd indicated that I regard different sub-types to be treated as different creature type, so the PC being a Wood Elf still qualifies when he's disguised as Dark Elf), Tower of Destruction (Blue Potion creating Elf disguise)
Ranking after Q2:
1) petch, trialmaster, Peter, greenspine (2) 6) vastariner, evilwizard, (3) 7) kieran (4)
3. Name a gamebook in which you may incur a LUCK penalty for killing unnecessarily or for killing a good or innocent being (the penalty must be directly and soley for the act itself, not as a result of something like looting a harmful/cursed item from the person you killed, or the dying person laying a magical spell or curse on you before its death, or springing a trap while searching his room, etc). Please reference the section number where the killing and penalty occurs for this answer. Scorpion Swamp (The Master of Gardens) - vastariner, Peter, kieran Vault of the Vampire (killing the Ranger and the Bear, reference 393) - evilwizard Vault of the Vampire (unprovoked murder of Wilhelm Heydrich) - greenspine Howl of the Werewolf (for killing Van Richten ref 89) - petch Stealer of Souls (ref 290: killing sleeping guard) - trialmaster
Oh dear. I thought I recalled a pretty broad range of possible scenarios, but it's true that quite often more than 1 instances of this are in the same gamebook. Unfortunately, the name of the gamebook is the direct answer, so more than half the players fell victim to this (and 2 of them for the same murder). Perhaps the answer range for this one turned out to be more narrow than I'd originally intended. I probably should have asked for individual kills instead of book name.
Other possible answers I can think of include Talisman of Death (killing the old man who witnessed your attempted theft of the Talisman with the Thieves Guild), Night of the Necromancer (which also features a Van Richten murder, incidentally) and Beneath Nightmare Castle (Margrave's daughter turned into spiked maiden). I actually had the infamous Crypt of the Sorcerer in mind too (where you have to murder an innocent to get an important quest item), but upon checking the penalty is actually due to a curse, which my question specifically disqualifies.
Ranking after Q3:
1) petch, trialmaster, (3) 3) greenspine (4) 5) evilwizard,Peter (5) 6) vastariner (6) 7) kieran (7)
More to come later...
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 25, 2023 8:30:05 GMT
4. Name a gamebook in which you may fight an opponent whom you cannot see. (It has to be in standard FF combat format with the opponent's SKILL and STAMINA listed.) Name or identify said opponent.
Seas of Blood (Invisible Striker reference 240) - evilwizard, greenspine Night Dragon (Invisible Assassin ref 193) - petch Deathmoor (ref 339: Invisible Warrior) - trialmaster Trial of Champions (fighting slave, ref 120) - vastariner The Seven Serpents (Snattacat) - Peter Midnight Rogue (Poltergeist ref 121) - kieran
Nothing too remarkable. I rejected petch's initial answer of Basilisk (which was when I clarified that opponents which are actually visible to the PC but which the PC choose not to look at because it's harmful to whomever that looks at it do not qualify), but even with that limitation there should be no shortage of answers, including those with magical invisibility, those that lack a physical form entirely, those that you are forced to fight while blinded/blindfolded, and those that are encountered in environments with no light source to see with. Unfortunately, 2 of the players still went for the same answer.
Quite a few other answers available. The ones where the PC may learn/select special abilities to help them fight in the dark (such as Daggers of Darkness, Chasms of Malice and Master of Chaos), may be considered too obvious, and hence no one went for them?
Ranking after Q4:
1) petch, trialmaster, (4)
3) greenspine, Peter (6)
5) vastariner, evilwizard (7)
7) kieran (8)
5. Name a gamebook in which you may have an ally that helps you in a battle and where a SKILL is provided for said ally to roll for their own Attack Strength. (Name or or otherwise identify both ally and opponent)
Starship Traveller (your crew members can aid you in multiple fights, Skill scores are provided during pre-game generation) - petch Crypt of the Sorcerer (ref 79: ally is Symm (Sk10) against Cave Troll) - trialmaster Siege of Sardath, (Istu, Sk 12 St 15 at 157, can help in next 5 fights afterwards) - vastariner Phantoms of Fear (Reference 396, Eric Rune-Axe, vs Shapechanger) - evilwizard Khare Cityport of Traps (On ref 310, you can cast GOB (ref 365) to create a number of goblins (each skill 5 stamina 5) to fight the Harpies on ref 118) - Peter Eye of the Dragon (Littlebig against Black Dragon) - kieran Caverns of the Snow Witch (Knight and White Dragon – section 313) greenspine
First question with zero clashes! Again, pretty sure the question about companions and allies have been done at least once before in previous rounds, and I recall reflecting how many of the classic ones (like Mungo and Throm) never actually has to roll for combat against your enemies (although Throm has to do that against the PC himself). Many simply automatically take care of or are killed by enemies in the text, others only give you an Attack Strength bonus. Another question which is mostly just a version with narrower answer range of one of the earlier rounds. But for this one, once again, there's no lack of available answers despite the extra limitations. The ones where you magically summon an ally (using spells and items) are the ones I forgot about personally, but are more than happy to accept.
Several other answers still available, including Stormslayer (Brokk, helps you in multiple combat in the mines), Vault of the Vampire (Nastasia helps you in final battle against Katarina Heydrich), Master of Chaos (Naas helps you against Nercomancer).
Ranking after Q5:
1) petch, trialmaster, (5)
3) greenspine, Peter (7)
5) vastariner, evilwizard (8)
7) kieran (9)
6. Name a gamebook in which you may carry around and/or open a portable-sized container that contains a creature inside. Reference the section where you either open or acquire said container.
Phantoms of Fear (you open the Weevil Man's pack which contains maggots ref 162) - petch Portal of Evil (ref 371: birds in cages) - trialmaster Black Vein Prophecy (opening the brooch to release Izkhao) - vastariner Trial of Champions (opening the wooden box in the witch's room which contains the Dwarf that entered the Dungeon) - evilwizard The Warlock of Firetop Mountain (in ref 397, small box under a makeshift wooden table. Opening it on ref 240 reveals a snake within as well as a fairly important key) - Peter Citadel of Chaos (ref 39, Spider-man in jar) - kieran House of Hell (67, Nanka in a bottle) - greenspine
No lack of answers here either, although some may be hidden in obscure sections that you have to scour for. I'm happy that the snake in the box in WoFTM and Spider-man in CoC are both mentioned, since they are the original sources of my idea for this question. The box that traps contestants inside in Trial of Champions is an unexpected pleasant surprise entry. Other acceptable answers include Curse of the Mummy (also has a bottled Nanka), Island of the Lizard King (Water Elemental trapped in Pouch of Unlimited Content), and City of Thieves (small man in glass jar).
Not much changes in the ranking in this update. petch and trialmaster retain their leads with perfect scores thus far. How long can they retain it?
Ranking after Q6:
1) petch, trialmaster, (6)
3) greenspine, Peter (8)
5) vastariner, evilwizard (9)
7) kieran (10)
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Post by a moderator on Nov 25, 2023 15:30:13 GMT
3. Name a gamebook in which you may incur a LUCK penalty for killing unnecessarily or for killing a good or innocent being (the penalty must be directly and soley for the act itself, not as a result of something like looting a harmful/cursed item from the person you killed, or the dying person laying a magical spell or curse on you before its death, or springing a trap while searching his room, etc). Please reference the section number where the killing and penalty occurs for this answer. [...] Other possible answers I can think of include Talisman of Death (killing the old man who witnessed your attempted theft of the Talisman with the Thieves Guild), I considered that one, but concluded that it wouldn't qualify - the LUCK penalty comes if you allow Lord Min to kill the old man. If you kill him yourself, you're not quiet enough, and an alarm is raised, as a consequence of which you must Test your Luck to avoid being stabbed in the arras, so you still end up 1 LUCK point down, but not from a penalty per se.
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 25, 2023 15:54:08 GMT
3. Name a gamebook in which you may incur a LUCK penalty for killing unnecessarily or for killing a good or innocent being (the penalty must be directly and soley for the act itself, not as a result of something like looting a harmful/cursed item from the person you killed, or the dying person laying a magical spell or curse on you before its death, or springing a trap while searching his room, etc). Please reference the section number where the killing and penalty occurs for this answer. [...] Other possible answers I can think of include Talisman of Death (killing the old man who witnessed your attempted theft of the Talisman with the Thieves Guild), I considered that one, but concluded that it wouldn't qualify - the LUCK penalty comes if you allow Lord Min to kill the old man. If you kill him yourself, you're not quiet enough, and an alarm is raised, as a consequence of which you must Test your Luck to avoid being stabbed in the arras, so you still end up 1 LUCK point down, but not from a penalty per se. I'd actually forgotten than you don't cut the old man's throat yourself after knocking him out, you can only let someone else kill him. So, yes, you're right, it wouldn't have qualified.
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 25, 2023 17:23:06 GMT
7. Name a character who isn’t a god or a demon, that is mentioned by name in the text of a gamebook, but doesn't actually appear in that book, but does appear in another, different gamebook (name both gamebooks in question as well).
Glandragor (mentioned in Khare, appears in The Shamutanti Hills) - Peter, Greenspine Ramedes (mentioned in Magehunter ref 39, appears in Slaves of the Abyss ref 10) - petch Riddling Reaver (mentioned in Phantoms of Dear Reference 98, appears in Slaves of the Abyss Ref 86) - evilwizard Balthus Dire (mentioned in intro to Creature of Havoc and appears in Citadel of Chaos) - trialmaster Sukumvit (mentioned in Scorpion Swamp section 359, appears in Trial of Champions) Razaak (mentioned in Eye of the Dragon, appears in Crypt of the Sorcerer)
One of the few questions where I asked to name a character instead of a gamebook, partly because I was aware that a fair number of such names appear in the same book....although as it turns out, that didn't even come into play with the answers I received. Other potential answers not named include Zagor (also mentioned in Creature Havoc's background), all 3 of the Grand Wizard of Yore's start pupils (listed as options to a puzzle in Armies of Death), Feior and Bezenvial (mentioned in Crimson Tide), Sourbelly (mentioned in Deathtrap Dungeon).
Again, the Sorcery series being a continuous single adventure actually provides multiple possible answers too, so it's unfortunate that the 2 players who tried to make use of this picked the same person. I'm mildly amused that both went for Glandragor. but no one went for Vik. Perhaps the fact that the book specifically tells you to remember his name makes him too obvious an answer?
Ranking after Q7:
1) petch, trialmaster, (7) 3) greenspine, Peter, vastariner, evilwizard (10) 7) kieran (11)
8. Name a gamebook in which it is possible for the PC to have a completely non-violent encounter with a creature whose type is listed as 'Hostile' in Out of the Pit. Identify the sequence of sections from the start of the encounter till its end without the creature ever attempting to attack you (and vice versa).
1) It has to be listed as ONLY Hostile. Creatures listed as 'Unfriendly-Hostile' or 'Neutral-Hostile', etc, do not qualify.
2) The creature has to be aware of the PC's presence. Sneaking past one does not count.
3) The creature must be able to recognize the PC's actual creature type (he cannot be disguised as a species that is friendly or neutral to it).
4) Scenarios where you offer a gift or assistance to gain its friendship are acceptable.
Night Dragon (Black Dragon at Dragon Elders' meeting) - petch Night Dragon (Frost Giant - the Great Jarl, bargaining to obtain Magic Shield) - trialmaster Master of Chaos (Naas the Dark Elf) - evilwizard, greenspine Forest of Doom (Clone warriors, after you slay the Fire Demon) - vastariner The Shamutanti Hills (Werewolf from random encounter table in section 123, using LAW spell to send it away) - Peter Beneath Nightmare Castle (Goblin salesman) - kieran
And here both petch and trialmaster finally lost their perfect scores by clashing with each other over the same book! They are still in the lead, however.
This is the question I was initially most unsure about whether or not there might be a broad or narrow range of answers available, and took me a while to make sure that it's still a viable question. Other possible answers I can think of include Stealer of Souls (multiple potentially-friendly Orcs, most of them drunk, and one other because you can help him kill an enemy who just stole from him), Dead of Night (sleepy Goblin in a barrel), Warlock of Firetop Mountain (avert the Werewolf boathouse guardian's hostility by telling him about his untied shoelace), Crypt of the Sorcerer (some zombies are programmed only to work, not to fight) and Island of the Undead (summoned Earth Elemental is subservient). I also had Daggers of Darkness in mind when I first considered this question because I remember encountering a friendly Troll, but a quick check revealed that Common Trolls are actually Neutral-Hostile, so that doesn't qualify.
The Clone Warriors turning subservient after you kill their master was something that completely slipped my mind. Nice catch from vastariner.
Ranking after Q8:
1) petch, trialmaster, (9) 3) Peter, vastariner (11) 5) greenspine, evilwizard, kieran (12)
9. Identify TWO different creatures types, each from a different gamebook, that has 1 of the 4 major elements (Earth, Air, Fire or Water) as part of their name. The 2 names cannot contain the same element.
Bonus Condition: As long as none of the other players have named the exact same 2 creatures as you, your answer counts as unique. HOWEVER, if you manage to name 2 completely unique creatures that are not named by anyone else, you get to deduct 1 point from your total score.
Black Fairy (Crypt of the Sorcerer) and Bone-Fire (Stormslayer ref 125) - petch Earth Demon (Stormslayer) and Air Elemental (Legend of Zagor) - trailmaster Hairy spiders (Battleblade Warrior) Water-wyrd (Howl of the Werewolf) - vastariner Starfire Valioog (Sky Lord) & Air-Fighter (Robot Commando) - evilwizard Firefox (The Seven Serpents) & Giant Water-Snake (Island of the Lizard King) Fire Warrior (Appointment with FEAR) & Greater Air Elemental (Stormslayer) - kieran Bone-Fire (Night of the Necromancer) Water-Wyrd (Howl of the Werewolf) - greenspine
The possibility of players choosing names with contain "air" as part of a word instead of a whole word is something I'd already considered and contemplated before setting the question, and I'd decided to accept such submissions. Perhaps that might have made it too lenient. 2 players took advantage of that, and greenspine also asked if such answers would have been acceptable, even though he did not take that route himself.
This question also caused me a bit of headache as I had to consider whether some of the names listed qualify as creature types. evilwizard going for machines over sentient beings caught me by surprise, and I also wasn't certain if Fire Warriors are actually monikers instead of creature types, even though the beings in question literally appear as Fiery humanoid. I wasn't altogether comfortable with those, but for the most part I chose to err on the side of leniency in terms of basic answers. The only answers I rejected were from trialmaster (Master of Air, which was very clearly a title and not his creature typing) and from Peter, who originally submitted the Crown of Kings as the book for Firefox (because his other answer also comes from the Seven Serpent, and he couldn't use the same book for both). But the Firefox doesn't actually appear as a creature in Crown of Kings, it was only mentioned because its blood is an ingredient for an item, so I couldn't accept that. Nonetheless, this question is in Peter's favour, as he actually turns out to be one of the few who meets the Bonus condition! He now ties with petch and trialmaster at the top of the ranking because of that.
When it comes to the Bonus condition, I decided to be more strict, so after consideration, I decided that kieran and trialmaster do not get the bonus point, even though the former submitted "Greater" Air Elemental and the latter just plain Air Elemental, I don't think there are sufficient distinction to consider them different creature types.
No one gets more than 1 point for this question, but only evilwizard and Peter get the bonus for submitting 2 unique answers each!
Ranking after Q9:
1) petch, trialmaster, Peter (10) 4) evilwizard (11) 5) vastariner (12) 6) greenspine, kieran (13)
Question 10 will take me longer, so please bear with me for another day...
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Per
Traveller
AHAHAHA!
Posts: 161
Favourite Gamebook Series: Morris VR, some FF, Chalk LW
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Post by Per on Nov 25, 2023 19:45:24 GMT
For question 6, maybe Beneath Nightmare Castle where you throw a tentacle into your backpack and it eats all your sandwiches would count?
This "Bob's first answer was wrong so he got to switch to a better one" thing still mystifies me. If people are allowed to answer with "X if you allow it, else Y", that would seem to preclude the possibility that the moderator would ever respond to a request for clarification with, "It seems clear to me, think carefully and submit your answer."
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Post by vastariner on Nov 25, 2023 22:37:35 GMT
The Clone Warriors turning subservient after you kill their master was something that completely slipped my mind. Nice catch from vastariner. Of course you CAN have a violent encounter with the Clone Warriors, but it's not compulsory if you go the shroom route. The Clones fascinate me for a few reasons, they're basically humanoid fungi (and the OotP illustrations are way better at showing this), and, technically, you could lose a fight to a Clone with Sk0 - presumably that involves a warrior trying to hack through one but constantly missing and wounding themselves? But also that they're a sign of being an early creation, given that the name Clone could be used for so, so, so many harsher or at least more advanced concepts, but, given this was Bk 3, they're thrown away on mycology. Bit like how Demonspawn are the big bosses in the Fire*wolf books but pantywusses in FF.
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 26, 2023 1:18:26 GMT
For question 6, maybe Beneath Nightmare Castle where you throw a tentacle into your backpack and it eats all your sandwiches would count? That would have been a fine answer, yes. I'm sure there are still good answers that I hadn't thought of myself for several of the question. This "Bob's first answer was wrong so he got to switch to a better one" thing still mystifies me. If people are allowed to answer with "X if you allow it, else Y", that would seem to preclude the possibility that the moderator would ever respond to a request for clarification with, "It seems clear to me, think carefully and submit your answer." In my case, if I think there might be enough ambiguity in my wording of the question for players to interpret it differently, I tend to opt for clarification over straight disqualification. Like in the case of Q4, I think it doesn't quite completely violate the question's boundary if petch were to argue "The PC cannot see the enemy because he's fighting with his eyes closed.", so I chose to further define on the boundary of what constitute as cannot be seen for this question. This leniency may admittedly be me over-compensating due to my previous experience as host, where I had some poorly-worded questions that allowed for quite an amount of ambiguity. As a player, I certainly have no objections to the host setting stricter rules (like greenspine did in the last round), but as host, I opt for more leniency. If an answer violates what I consider is already a clearly defined rule - like, for example, someone choosing a creature that is Neutral-Hostile despite me already making it clear that it's not acceptable, then it would be a straight wrong without me asking for replacement answers. Likewise, if another player decided to submit Gorgon from Return to Firetop Mountain for Q4 after I'd made the further clarification, there would be no second chances either.
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Post by Peter on Nov 26, 2023 5:20:07 GMT
Q5: I almost chose the more cunning answer or Sandar in Revenge of the Vampire. When he fights as your ally, you simply add 2 to your attack strength. But before then, he fights you in the normal way. So he helps you in a battle, and a skill is provided to roll for his attack strength, just not at the same time. I went with the GOB spell in the end, on the assumption that someone else would be equally cunning and also choose Sandar. Didn't matter in the end.
Q7: Absolutely. I thought of Glandragor, then thought of Vik, decided that was too tempting and someone else would choose it, and went with my first choice. Mattered a lot in the end. For Q2, I was prepared to argue my case, concerning "your default form", if you didn't accept it. Thankfully, no need.
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 26, 2023 11:59:05 GMT
Q5: I almost chose the more cunning answer or Sandar in Revenge of the Vampire. When he fights as your ally, you simply add 2 to your attack strength. But before then, he fights you in the normal way. So he helps you in a battle, and a skill is provided to roll for his attack strength, just not at the same time. I went with the GOB spell in the end, on the assumption that someone else would be equally cunning and also choose Sandar. Didn't matter in the end. I don't think I would have accepted that. I'm glad you went with what you did. **** Sorry for the delay, here's the last one...and a major game-changer too! 10. Name a gamebook which does NOT feature any Orcs or undead creatures at all. Bonus Condition: If you name a gamebook that is based in the world of Titan, you get to deduct 1 point from your total score - provided that the answer you give is both correct and unique. If your answer is duplicated by one or more players, you all get the usual penalty. Portal of Evil - petch Appointment with F.E.A.R - trialmaster Star Strider - vastariner Slaves of the Abyss - evilwizard The Crown of Kings - Peter The Rings of Kether - kieran Robot Commando - greenspine The initial idea for this question comes from the trivia that Orcs are willing to eat anything except undead and their own kind, and it struck me that these actually cover the most prolific range of enemies encountered in fantasy-based FF. But as I mentioned, I regret setting this because the process of verifying the answers' validity are naturally time-consuming...especially in the case of Peter, who saw fit to name an 800-section book. >_< None of the players clash with each other, so the key is whether anyone got their answer wrong, and whether anyone score the Bonus point. vastariner, kieran and greenspine went for the 'safe' answers, deciding not to risk trying for the bonus. As far as I can tell, there are no complications or controversy raised by their answers, and each of them scores 1 point. For a while, I thought petch has his top spot cinched. Portal of Evil looks like a clever answer. Even before examining it closely, I still clearly remember that despite the presence of a Zombie-warding item in the book, there are no actual undead creatures you can encounter, and all the Slave Warriors are explicitly said to be not undead. Then I came across section 140: "You are standing on the edge of the jungle, about to start up the bare hillside towards the township of stone huts, when you are ambushed from right and left, a motley collection of warriors emerges trom the vegetation. Some of them are Goblins, others are Dwafs, Elves, Orcs, and remarkable hybrids of several races..." Thus, unfortunately, petch falls at the last hurtle, gaining 8 points for this Qn and dropping to the last position, regretfully. Peter's answer, as mentioned took me the longest...to the point that I almost begrudge giving him the bonus, but kudos to him for identifying this answer anyway, as I could not find any traces of Orcs or undead creatures in the text of the book. Peter gets to deduct 1 point from his total score, ending up with less points than the number of questions set despite clashing with others for a couple of questions this round! evilwizard's answer is one of the those that forced me to do a bit of further research outside the books I own. The problem with authors that prefer to fill their books with their own inventions rather than take stock monsters from generic fantasy and earlier FF is that it's often harder to judge the category of these unique monsters and enemies. For Slaves of the Abyss, the primary subject of potential controversy here is the Gatherer, who appears like a walking skeleton in robes. In the end, I decided to defer to the Titannica (and in turn, the AFF sourcebook Rough Guide to the Pit), which categorizes it as a Demon. I find that an acceptable explanation for its appearance, as Demonic Servants also look like skeletons in robes, so in the end, I rule that evilwizard gets the right answer and the bonus. (Since the author of the book is actually a board member here, I invite him to correct me on this if he disagrees. ) trialmaster's answer gives me the biggest headache. When I first received the answer, I thought that my main problem will be deciding whether Titan City counts as "world of Titan". But then I realize there are other issues. For one thing, despite being a sci-fi book, there are 2 characters which can be argued to be undead in nature: the Mummy, and the Reincarnation. Titiannica and AFF Sourcebooks are no help in this case - the Mummy in AwF is clearly not meant to be the same as Mummies defined in Out of the Pit. Ironically it's actually the Mummy that is slightly less of an issue, since the supervillain seem to operate as a regular human most of the time, this feels more like a mutant power than undead. The Reincarnation, however, besides not being explicitly described as undead, actually ticks more of the boxes. A creature that rises from the grave and seems to operate like an indestructible zombie. The main thing that gives credit to the argument that it's not undead is the lack of evidence of it ever having been "dead" or "alive" to begin with - the general dictionary definition of undead being that they're supposed to mean creatures that are reanimated after they die. Besides being described as impossible to kill in its current form, there isn't enough information to definitely pronounce it as undead, so in the end, I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt. But as with the last question, while I choose to err on the side of leniency for basic answers, I also choose to be stricter about the bonus condition. In the end, I also decide that Titan City doesn't quite constitute a "world" by my definition, so trialmaster only gets 1 point for his answer. Again, not without controversy, but by my rulings, the final winner first place goes to Peter. Congratulations! Final Ranking: 1) Peter (9) 2) evilwizard (10) 3) trialmaster (11) 4) vastariner (13) 5) greenspine, kieran (14) 7) petch (18) Thanks to everyone who participated. There are still issues, I feel, but I hope you at least enjoyed this more than my previous host attempt.
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trialmaster
Wanderer
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Posts: 62
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Post by trialmaster on Nov 26, 2023 12:16:24 GMT
Congrats to Peter for what I think was a deserved victory having given some excellent answers. Thanks to Gabe for a tough, challenging round. Sorry for giving you such a headache with my answer for Q10! In all honesty I think your scoring was fair as I always thought Titan City was pushing the boundaries a bit in an attempt to get the bonus. I was looking through Titan 'world' gamebooks for a long time with no luck so settled on AwF. I didn't even contemplate Crown of Kings so again fair play to Peter.
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Post by petch on Nov 26, 2023 12:30:52 GMT
Dagnabbit, I thought I'd found a good answer for Q10, not just because I thought other players might forget that the Slave Warriors are not undead, but because I believed that it contained goblins but not orcs...clearly I didn't check the book thoroughly enough, good pickup Gabe to spot the reference to them that I missed!
Anyhoo, I really enjoyed this round, some well thought out questions there that invited players to scour the books for some outside the box answers. Thanks Gabe for running, and congrats to Peter both for the win and for managing to get the bonus for both of the last two questions.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,466
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 26, 2023 13:00:52 GMT
Thanks Gabe and well done Peter!
I completely misread the creature in a container question and thought it had to be something you carried round with you and couldn't think of anything other than the spider-man. Luckily everyone else read the question properly!
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Post by Peter on Nov 27, 2023 3:46:14 GMT
Well that makes a change. So many times I have started off well and ended up in the middle, but this time it was the other way around. I tried to use books that I though other people wouldn't. It seemed to work.
I first thought of The Seven Serpents for Q10, because it has a Deathwraith that is actually fake, so I thought it would be a clever answer. But then I found the spirits who convince you to renounce Libra, and I wondered if they count as undead. A "quick" look through the longest book of all told me it is filled with mountain creatures and Fortress inhabitants, and even the Netherworld Demon isn't undead, so I had to opt for that one. Sorry.
This quiz was difficult to find answers for, and I relied more on my own memory of the books than anything else. That made it an enjoyable challenge. Thanks Gabe.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,466
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 27, 2023 9:45:00 GMT
I first thought of The Seven Serpents for Q10, because it has a Deathwraith that is actually fake, so I thought it would be a clever answer. But then I found the spirits who convince you to renounce Libra, and I wondered if they count as undead. A "quick" look through the longest book of all told me it is filled with mountain creatures and Fortress inhabitants, and even the Netherworld Demon isn't undead, so I had to opt for that one. Sorry.
I considered The Seven Serpents too but then I wondered if the serpents themselves would count as undead since they were originally the heads of a hydra slain by the Archmage.
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Nov 27, 2023 13:40:09 GMT
I first thought of The Seven Serpents for Q10, because it has a Deathwraith that is actually fake, so I thought it would be a clever answer. But then I found the spirits who convince you to renounce Libra, and I wondered if they count as undead. A "quick" look through the longest book of all told me it is filled with mountain creatures and Fortress inhabitants, and even the Netherworld Demon isn't undead, so I had to opt for that one. Sorry.
I considered The Seven Serpents too but then I wondered if the serpents themselves would count as undead since they were originally the heads of a hydra slain by the Archmage. I thank you for not making me decide on that!
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