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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Apr 1, 2023 23:20:23 GMT
Did you have any special feelings about Adric's death? I thought it was very well handled - it probably would have hit me harder if I didn't (as it turns out, wrongly) suspect they would just save him next story. Still, he got to go out a hero and the silent credits made it quite poignant. He appears in Time-Flight purely so he'd be credited in the Radio Times and thus hide the fact that he'd die in Earthshock. The producer, JNT, also turned down the offer of a Radio Times cover for the return of the Cybermen to hide their return (it would have been the first Radio Times cover since Pertwee's last season in 1973/74!
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Post by a moderator on Apr 2, 2023 0:17:55 GMT
Steven Gallagher is an acclaimed sci-fi author (I've not read any of his works). More of a horror/thriller author. I've read 8 of his non- Who novels, and only two of them really qualify as sci-fi, with at least three others containing paranormal elements (usually based on folklore). The best of his books get very tense and gripping, and while there are a few that I don't rate so highly, I wouldn't call any of them bad.
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 2, 2023 11:32:41 GMT
I thought it was very well handled - it probably would have hit me harder if I didn't (as it turns out, wrongly) suspect they would just save him next story. Still, he got to go out a hero and the silent credits made it quite poignant. He appears in Time-Flight purely so he'd be credited in the Radio Times and thus hide the fact that he'd die in Earthshock. The producer, JNT, also turned down the offer of a Radio Times cover for the return of the Cybermen to hide their return (it would have been the first Radio Times cover since Pertwee's last season in 1973/74!
Impressed at how Jodie Whittaker kept her identity as the next Doctor a secret even when asked on telly. It wasn't like that with Matt Smith who revealed himself on a half-hour programme "Who will be the next Doctor?".
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Apr 3, 2023 14:20:06 GMT
Interesting to get all these behind the scenes details. It shows how much the writers and directors were constrained in their storytelling by external factors. Besides The Mind Robber way back in Season 6 (which has the excuses of being the final story recorded of that production block, Fraser Hines getting measles, and an extra episode having to be tacked onto the start of the story), this story has some of the shortest episodes (duration-wise), with Part 4 clocking in at 19 minutes (instead of the usual 24 1/2). What was the reason in this instance? Oh that would have ruined all the fun. I could see it being very marmite. Yeah, not surprised. It really doesn't make a lot of sense for the Master to be behind it though I still think the statue being a TARDIS was very clever. Aw, now I feel bad! That really explains a lot. I actually don't mind this approach. Was there any particular reason people thought Bush was behind it?
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Apr 3, 2023 14:21:10 GMT
Steven Gallagher is an acclaimed sci-fi author (I've not read any of his works). More of a horror/thriller author. I've read 8 of his non- Who novels, and only two of them really qualify as sci-fi, with at least three others containing paranormal elements (usually based on folklore). The best of his books get very tense and gripping, and while there are a few that I don't rate so highly, I wouldn't call any of them bad. Did you enjoy Warrior's Gate?
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Post by a moderator on Apr 3, 2023 14:43:07 GMT
Not on the original broadcast (and it didn't help that I missed the second episode because of a Christmas party), but nowadays it's my favourite story of the season.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Apr 6, 2023 18:30:48 GMT
What was the reason in this instance? Just the scripts weren't long enough and (unlike other instances such as Kinda) not attempt was made to record scenes to pad out the run time. Don't. Being a DW fan is to be a member of a very broad church of tones/themes/ideas/aesthetics. Yes, there are some fans who insist that DW should only be one thing, but they are in the minority. I don't expect every DW story to appeal to everyone, so people not liking my favourite is no big issue. The 'evidence' being that somewhere on her album The Hounds of Love there's supposed to be a sample of dialogue from Kinda.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on May 19, 2023 16:21:59 GMT
Well, seems I was a bit previous in assuming that was Tegan out of the series! Series 20 was mostly good, but flagged a bit at the end.
Arc of Infinity Wow, a decent Gallifrey-based story! The Time Lords seem a bit more competent here, even if they're no more likeable. While I saw the twist of Hedlin being the villain coming, I still think it was quite well done - is he acting out of affection for the Doctor, to protect Omega, or a bit of both? The noble traitor idea is fairly novel for the series and it helps that he's played by Best Alfred Ever Michael Gough. I also liked how the Castellan and his Colin Baker goon were not actually corrupt as the story initially suggests, just single-minded and brutal. It was good to see Omega make a return, but he still comes across as quite a reasonable villain. Bearing in mind the Time Lord leaders are pretty awful people apart from Hedlin who sides with Omega anyway, would it be so bad if Omega won? These musings aside, it's also a good story for Nyssa who gets to be unusually badass in a way we haven't seen since Leela (who sadly doesn't appear despite being mentioned). The Doctor also gets to show off a bit of his noble and affectionate side which is a nice change from Series 19's whining and complaining. However, there's a B story which isn't very interesting, especially as it gets greater focus when the most interesting character (Hedlin) is abruptly killed off. Tegan turning out to be the cousin of one of the backpackers is a ridiculous coincidence and she and the dozy backpackers don't add much to proceedings anyway unless you particularly enjoy casual swipes at the Dutch authorities. Oddly, the last scene suggests the Doctor ditched her on purpose! I also think the writers had no idea what antimatter actually is - Omega reverting to antimatter just seems to involve becoming gradually gooey and the final chase is pretty unengaging. Pity.
Snakedance A follow up to Kinda wasn't a bad idea and it means Tegan can do her entertaining possessed act again. It's a pity that once again she gets sidelined in the second half, this time for a young Martin Clunes who looks distractingly like Macaulay Culkin. For vague reasons, he retains more of his personality than Tegan when possessed, perhaps because he was already a jerk even before he got possessed. The snake-like nature of the Mara is better utilised here than in Kinda with a culture having grown up that sees the Mara as almost a fairy tale that can be celebrated and those who take it more seriously are seen as crackpots. The characters are a mixed bag. Clunes is entertaining as a bored aristocrat but I kept waiting for his mother to do something more than wring her hands in the background. I liked the way Clunes was able to corrupt the keeper of the crystal with an archaeological discovery rather than wealth or power and it fit well with the character's already demonstrated scepticism - someone who really believed in the myths would probably resist the Mara harder. The Doctor is unfortunately at his worst here, talking in riddles then biting the heads off anyone who questions him. The climax where a ceremony is usurped was well executed until the all too easy solution. So yeah, a lot of good and bad with this one though probably slightly more of the former.
Mawdryn Undead The Brigadier's back! All the references to previous Doctors and companions made me feel quite nostalgic though the Brigadier himself doesn't come across very likeable between him being sexist to Tegan, wanting to see one teenage boy thrashed and fat-shaming another. I thought at first he might be suffering from dementia which would be an interesting direction to take the character, but it turns out he just had a bit of a breakdown following being zapped by encountering his future self (more on that later). It doesn't really matter but there seems to be a few inconsistencies with him being retired from UNIT in 1977 since I'm fairly sure Sarah-Jane was meant to be from 1980. Speaking of inconsistencies, the Doctor is clearly meant to have only rejuvenated four times by now which is at odds with previous stories saying he had pre-Hartnell incarnations. Anyway, this is a story that really embraces the time-travel dynamic of the concept of the series which is something that's usually ignored beyond inserting the Doctor into the story. There is some fun in seeing how the two time periods interact with one another though it rarely produces anything more interesting than people spouting technobabble at one another over control panels, or the Brigadier or Turlough wandering empty rooms. Speaking of Turlough, that plotline never really gets going as the focus shifts on to the mutated scientists who are admittedly the more interesting villains than the Black Guardian as they are quite sympathetic. There's still a lot of mystery going on about Turlough by the end but I guess we'll find out more as it continues. The story eventually boils down to a bit of moral quandary for the Doctor but it's not explored all that much - he won't even consider sacrificing his future incarnations until Nyssa and Tegan are endangered too and then he doesn't hesitate. Up to this noble self-sacrifice, he's at his absolute worst however, yelling at people for asking fair questions and going nuts at Tegan for bringing 1977 Brigadier in the TARDIS when she would have zero idea that 1983 Brigadier was also time-travelling. Nyssa fares little better, existing mostly for other characters to bounce ideas off and being all too naive (which is at odds with how she's been portrayed in previous stories). Tegan comes off pretty well however, showing a bit of spunk and cool-headedness. The ending was very disappointing. For one thing I don't buy that meeting a version of yourself from another timeline should cause dramatic issues. For another thing, I really don't buy that the issues it causes are that it achieves everything the goods guys hoped for while seemingly destroying the Black Guardian. Ah well. I was still entertained by the ambition of the time travel elements to this story, the sympathetic villains and the nostalgia-stroking, but I feel this really could have been more than it ended up.
Terminus Wow, you can definitely tell we're well into the 1980s now with those hairstyles. In general I liked the look of this one though, the sets were dark and brooding and the exoskeleton armour of the Vanir is pretty cool. I do wish the Garm's face was a bit more animated though. I also mostly liked the story to this one: a sort of leper colony in space presided over by slave warriors kept in check by providing them small doses of a preventative medicine. However, the whole thing about it being in the centre of the universe, causing the big bang and possibly detsroying the universe seemed unneccesary and, unless I misunderstood things, made no sense - how could the corporation still be around if the ship was blasted billions of years into the future? I also could have done without the Black Guardian yelling at Turlough for another story. I get this is building to something but it seems so repetitive. Turlough does have a couple of nice moments with Tegan, but the character needs more to do. Other characters fare better - I particularly liked Valgard who gives a charismatic performance and serves well both as enemy and ally. He's a bit of a rubbish fighter though! Nyssa's farewell is pretty well done and fitting (although could she really work out how to synthesise hydromel from a ten second look and with no idea what equipement she'd have to work with?). I like that she tells the Doctor off for being a prick to Tegan in her final scene.
Enlightenment This reminded me of Series 6's The War Games with some powerful beings using humans in games that ape human history. Wisely, unlike in The War Games, there's no attempt to make these games part of some grand scheme - they merely form entertainment for bored beings. The grand plot comes from a confrontation between the White and Black Guardians but it doesn't really work all that well - the scenes with Turlough are beyond repetitive now and the White Guardian is so vague about what he wants people to do that it's hard to get invested. A pity because otherwise this story is excellent. I really love the idea of sea vessels of different eras competing in a space race (even if it seems a bit limited that Earthlings are the only ephemerals getting imitated) and there's some great surreal moments in the early stages. The Eternals are a cool concept - powerful beings that look down on ephemerals yet depend on them to give them any purpose. Most interesting is the character of Marriner who becomes obsessed with Tegan in a way that seems almost like love but turns out he just wants to possess her mind which he finds infinitely interesting. It's a good Tegan story in general and she has solid interactions with pretty much every major character. I was a bit less fond of the story when the focus switched to Evil Laugh Aficionado Wrack but it was still solid. Some weak plotting aside (Why does Wrack need to blow up ships if she has the fastest ship anyway? Why is she so trusting of Turlough to the extent he's able to chuck her overboard?) I really liked this one. It's also got the Doctor at his most pleasant for a while - it's weird how he's so much more forgiving and understanding with Turlough than he has been with Adric/Tegan/Nyssa but I can live with it.
The King's Demons It seems to be a rule for Doctor Who that if a story ends in a cliffhanger, that cliffhanger will be immediately waived away in the next story ('Come on Romana, I'm taking you back to Gallifrey... Or not'; 'Oh no, Nyssa's collapsed! Oh, wait she's fine'; 'Let's take you back to your home planet, Turlough... Or not'). Anyway, this is a pretty crap story with extremely annoying performances from half the characters (particularly King John) and very stilted ones from the rest. The Master's actions never make any sense and the premise is very weak - the historians got it wrong and King John was a swell guy who did Magna Carta off his own bat, but the Master has replaced him with an actual bad king who claims to serve demons even though he often appears hostile to said demons and now Magna Carta will never happen even though the barons now would have genuine reason to force him into doing it as the historians recorded. Maybe the writer wanted to rehabilitate King John like some people do for Richard III, but even so it makes little sense. Throw in some limp sword-fighting and a dull finale and this story is a loser. On the plus side, there are some nice interactions between the Doctor and Tegan though even these are somewhat undermined by his 'I'm going to turn this TARDIS round and go home' flounce at the end. Oh and Kamelion is complete nightmare fuel - not sure if that's a pro or a con.
The Five Doctors Bit of false advertising this considering the Fourth Doctor's only 'appearances' seem to be recycled footage from Shada. Still, I suppose at the time that was a lost story so it was easier to pretend the footage was new (though I wonder how it affected the events in Shada that the Doctor was plucked out of time in the middle of it?). We also unavoidably have a different actor for the First Doctor and he doesn't really have Hartnell's charisma (though at least we get some footage of Hartnell at the start). Pertwee seems to be the actor most into it all. The Doctors themselves don't interact that much which is a shame and the plot is pretty weak. While it's nice to see all the nostalgia references, nothing terribly exciting is done with any of it and the justification for it all is thin. The Master has a few good moments but he's foiled pretty easily. Borusa is a decent villain and I liked the trapped Time Lords in the tomb, but did we really need another 'Is the Castellan a bad guy' story? I do like that only the First and oldest Doctor is wise to the dangers of immortality - nice touch. But overall this was disappointing. Also, how is K9 living with Sarah? Wasn't the original with Leela and the second one with Romana?
1. Enlightenment 2. Arc of Infinity 3. Terminus 4. Mawdryn Undead 5. Snakedance 6. The Five Doctors 7. The King's Demons
I suppose I'd better alter my companion ranking to take Tegan back out and rank Nyssa. She was a bit like a weaker Liz in my opinion - someone good to bounce ideas off but otherwise there wasn't much there bar the odd plucky moment - she suffered in that the Doctor never seemed to appreciate her very much. I'll put her below Victoria but above Harry.
1. Jo 2. Leela 3. Ian 4. Sarah-Jane 5. Barbara 6. Romana 7. Ben 8. K-9 9. Liz 10. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart 11. Vikki 12. Steven 13. Victoria 14. Nyssa 15. Harry 16. Zoe 17. Adric 18. Jamie 19. Polly 20. Susan 21. Dodo
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Post by CharlesX on May 19, 2023 16:49:32 GMT
Thanks very much kieran very good as always. I've always thought the pre-McGann stories were amazing compared to the rebooted ones, but there were a lot of stinkers and a lot of so-so ones as you point out (just as there were definitely some excellent post-Rose stories, such as some of Tennant's). At times they prioritised storytelling over consistency and basically failed at either. For some reason I enjoyed Five Doctors a lot growing up, but don't feel the same way today; it's flat, slightly moralistic, and not more creative than most. OTOH it has a welcome reappearance by Patrick Troughton and companions, and Jon Pertwee and Peter Davison carry it well.
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Post by scouserob on May 19, 2023 16:56:30 GMT
Another strong 5th Doctor season despite all the intrusive Black Guardian nonsense which I just tried to ignore.
Again the 5th Doctor is persistently rude to Tegan and dismissive of Nyssa yet he is strangely encouraging and kind towards Turlough despite, or perhaps because of, his shady behaviour and double crossing ways.
My rankings for the season:
1. Mawdryn Undead 2. The Five Doctors (Mainly for nostalgia rather than its quality. Though it is fun.) 3. Enlightenment 4. Arc of Infinity 5. Terminus (A fitting send off for a criminally underused companion.) 6. Snakedance 7. The King's Demons (The Master's French accent was extremely strange. 😆)
Nyssa is a tricky companion to place. She was strong when well written, quiet but frequently sidelined or disparaged. I think I'll place her below Sarah Jane but above Steven.
1. Jo 2. Ian/Barbara 3. Romana 4. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart 5. Ben/Polly 6. Jamie 7. Zoe 8. Vikki 9. Sarah-Jane 10. Nyssa 11. Steven 12. Victoria 13. Leela 14. Susan 15. Liz 16. Harry 17. K-9 18. Adric 19. Dodo
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kieran
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Post by kieran on May 19, 2023 17:27:52 GMT
The Master's French accent was extremely strange. 😆 Very true! I didn't even realise it was meant to be French until someone mentioned it. Also if he could change his appearance, why did he need Kamelion anyway?
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Post by a moderator on May 20, 2023 0:23:08 GMT
Mawdryn Undead [...] It doesn't really matter but there seems to be a few inconsistencies with him being retired from UNIT in 1977 since I'm fairly sure Sarah-Jane was meant to be from 1980. Speaking of inconsistencies, the Doctor is clearly meant to have only rejuvenated four times by now which is at odds with previous stories saying he had pre-Hartnell incarnations. AIUI, the inconsistencies can largely be laid at the door of the fan who was working as uncredited continuity consultant. See the season 22 opener for another example of his influence on the series. To give him his due, he played a major part in averting the destruction of even more of the early episodes than there are missing. Off the top of my head I couldn't say exactly how much he achieved on the archiving front, but I do know that the first Dalek story was literally about to be thrown out when he intervened. IIRC, the ship didn't originally belong to the corporation. They just found it and decided to use it. Without rewatching the story, I couldn't say if that's a detail you missed, or something only made clear in the novelisation or some other secondary material. Physically oldest, chronologically youngest. Regeneration has weird consequences. That's K9 Mk III, whom the Doctor gifted to Sarah. The attempted spin-off K9 and Company (originally broadcast between seasons 19 & 20) explains it all.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on May 20, 2023 4:23:01 GMT
AIUI, the inconsistencies can largely be laid at the door of the fan who was working as uncredited continuity consultant. See the season 22 opener for another example of his influence on the series. Ian was indeed the one who suggested that the amnesiac figure from the Doctor's past and that it be a companion. But the Brigadier role was initially planned to be Ian Chesterton and then when William Russell wasn't available, Harry Sullivan. By the point that Nicholas Courtney was brought back as the Brigadier, the 1977/1983 and corresponding silver jubilee stuff were already in place.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on May 20, 2023 4:26:12 GMT
IIRC, the ship didn't originally belong to the corporation. They just found it and decided to use it. Yes, AFAIK the ship was a time ship whose first exploded engine created the universe.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on May 20, 2023 4:32:53 GMT
Well, seems I was a bit previous in assuming that was Tegan out of the series! Series 20 was mostly good, but flagged a bit at the end. The case of another strike issue (will cause some problems next year too). The strike resulted in the final 4-part story of the season, "Warhead" by Eric Saward, being cancelled. Saward will rework the script and it appears in Season 21. Arc of Infinity Wow, a decent Gallifrey-based story! "Arc" is usually slagged off by fans as being a bit crap. It doesn't really matter but there seems to be a few inconsistencies with him being retired from UNIT in 1977 since I'm fairly sure Sarah-Jane was meant to be from 1980. That 1980 line is the only date that mucks things up. As fashion, currency, other lines of dialogue etc. clearly show that the UNIT stories took place in the 60s & 70s. Enlightenment A pity because otherwise this story is excellent. This and "Snakedance" are generally considered by fans as the better two stories of the season with "Undead" third.
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Post by CharlesX on May 20, 2023 9:00:00 GMT
So, does anyone know why Tom Baker decided against appearing in The Five Doctors (other commitments and exhaustion probably)? It's a little unexpected coming from someone so usually lively, especially about Doctor Who.
Quoting Tardis Wiki (probably shouldah checked there before posting :
Tom Baker didn't appear in the story. He declined to return to his role as the Fourth Doctor, as he felt it was too soon after his departure from the show (a decision he later said he regretted). An early idea to incorporate footage of Hartnell and Baker into the story's action in a way similar to the contemporary film Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid was abandoned in favour of hiring Richard Hurndall to give his own impression of the First Doctor, while clips of Baker and Lalla Ward from the (at the time) unfinished and never-before-seen story Shada were used to show only the Fourth Doctor's abduction and return, without any interaction between himself and the other Doctors.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on May 20, 2023 11:20:45 GMT
IIRC, the ship didn't originally belong to the corporation. They just found it and decided to use it. Without rewatching the story, I couldn't say if that's a detail you missed, or something only made clear in the novelisation or some other secondary material. Ah that makes sense. Probably just me not paying enough attention. OK, thought my memory was playing tricks on me there!
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kieran
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Post by kieran on May 20, 2023 11:30:37 GMT
"Arc" is usually slagged off by fans as being a bit crap. My Michael Gough love probably swayed my opinion slightly. Fair enough. I wonder why the 1980 line was included in the first place?
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Post by a moderator on May 20, 2023 12:31:01 GMT
That 1980 line is the only date that mucks things up. As fashion, currency, other lines of dialogue etc. clearly show that the UNIT stories took place in the 60s & 70s. The information available for establishing when the UNIT stories took place is a mass of contradictions. Anyone who tries to fix an era can only do so by ignoring whatever data doesn't fit their preferred take. Dialogue in The Web of Fear indicates it to be set in the late seventies. The events of The Abominable Snowmen are explicitly dated to 1935 by Anne Travers, and her father refers to them as having happened 'over 40 years ago'. Advocates of a 1970s UNIT often assert that Travers senior was confused and meant 30 rather than 40, but even if you accept that and set Web at around the time it was broadcast, the 'present day, not near future' aspect doesn't last long. In The Invasion (televised a little less than a year after The Web of Fear), Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart observes that the first time he met the Doctor and Jamie was '4 years ago'. And so on. Now it's an established 'fact' within the DW reality, I blame the Time War. The UNIT era is not fixed in time: sometimes it runs from the sixties to the seventies, on other occasions it drifts to span the seventies and eighties, occasionally it might slip out of the seventies altogether.
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Post by CharlesX on May 25, 2023 11:56:01 GMT
That's K9 Mk III, whom the Doctor gifted to Sarah. The attempted spin-off K9 and Company (originally broadcast between seasons 19 & 20) explains it all. I dimly remember seeing K-9 And Company back in the nineties on VHS. As I remember the story was very cliche-ridden and the whole notion of giving K-9 his own show didn't have enough depth or possibilities.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on May 25, 2023 13:39:30 GMT
That's K9 Mk III, whom the Doctor gifted to Sarah. The attempted spin-off K9 and Company (originally broadcast between seasons 19 & 20) explains it all. I dimly remember seeing K-9 And Company back in the nineties on VHS. As I remember the story was very cliche-ridden and the whole notion of giving K-9 his own show didn't have enough depth or possibilities. I do like K-9 but a whole show focused on him might be a bit much!
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Jun 9, 2023 23:44:56 GMT
After a long break after Series 3 (2007), I have finally finished off the original Tennant era with Series 4 (2008) and the specials (2008-2010).
Start with Matt Smith on Monday.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Sept 9, 2023 1:20:52 GMT
Will finish up Peter Capaldi's first season (2014) this coming week. Will take a 2 week break for the term break and then back into it. Might reach the end of the Whittaker era by the time the anniversary specials air.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Oct 24, 2023 9:50:15 GMT
Series 21 took me 5 months to get through, mainly because it started quite poorly though picked up very well at its midpoint. If I was to pick one word to describe it, it would be 'violent'. There's a lot of grim-faced mercenaries gunning people down and women getting strangled (sometimes by the Doctor!). Was this show no longer primarily aimed at children at this stage?
Warriors of the Deep This story has probably the silliest looking sequence in the show so far where a middle-aged lady tries to kung-fu kick a rubbery pantomime horse. As memorable as that is, this is a pretty dull story, particularly for the first three episodes. We're in Base Under Siege territory again with the base being filled with particularly unlikeable humans apart from two - and one of them throttles the other early on in a scene I can't believe got past censors. The enemies this time are the Silurians and Sea Devils (I guess the Brigadier didn't quite manage to genocide all of the former then). These guys are in my opinion the most interesting enemy races in the series, but sadly here they're mostly just grunts who plod slowly along corridors shooting people. Things do improve in the final episode where we learn the Silurians/SDs intend to ignite a cold war between the humans - meaning if the humans weren't so bloodthirsty they would be spared which is a good commentary on humanity and fits with how the Silurians/SDs would have understood human nature from prior experience. The Doctor gets to decry humans and voice his guarded support for the Silurians but it ends like these stories always do with the Doctor failing to mediate a peace. Though at least the humans get wiped out along with the Silurians and SDs this time round. Apart from all that, there's the aforementioned rubbery pantomime horse monster and a couple of double-agents for the rival cold war power (which the script writers don't even name) whose conspiring adds very little to proceedings and leads to a lot of arguments between deadpan actors trying to out-deadpan one another. Meanwhile Turlough's character is all over the place, acting alternately brave and cowardly as the plot needs.
The Awakening I didn't realise when I started this that it was only a two-parter - maybe if I had, I'd be a bit better disposed to it. The first episode sets the scene nicely and I quite like the idea of battle recreation enthusiasts having their hobby turn more sinister and Sir George is a very engaging semi-villain. It reminded me quite a lot of The Daemons actually though I feel the setup wasn't quite so believable here - I just don't believe a town could cut itself off like this, especially as not all the residents seem to have fully bought into the war games. It might have been better to set it in the 19th Century instead especially as Tegan's grandfather doesn't add much to the story. What is it with Tegan's family getting caught up in sci-fi shenanigans anyway? Also he looks surprisingly young. Malus was a bit cheesy looking, but I liked his little animations anyway. Unfortunately, the second episode is a rushed mess where the villains basically all get themselves killed with very little input from the Doctor or his companions. Speaking of companions, I hope all these newcomers aren't sticking around or my companion ranking is going to get even more unwieldy.
Frontios There's a lot of Prime Directive-esque hand wringing in this one which doesn't really sit well with the concept of the show or indeed anything that's gone before. That aside, I had mixed feelings about this one. I thought the villains were quite a cool concept and I liked their design, but the people of Frontios with only two exceptions are just so unlikeable that I just wanted to be rid of them. The Doctor does gradually win their trust, but it's a long time coming and pretty tedious to sit through. Meanwhile Tegan has nothing to do but slowly come to the realisation that the Doctor is only pretending to sympathise with the Gravis - I did like her indignation as the Doctor pretended she was a substandard android though. Turlough gets to threaten people with a coathanger, do some terrible overacting at being traumatised then be Basil Exposition at the end. There is a decent subplot about a character who 'comes back from the dead' and ends up seen as a saviour and an intriguing mystery as to what happened to Plantagenet's father but nothing terribly interesting comes of either one. Not unwatchable, but I think I'm going to struggle to remember anything about this one in a couple of weeks.
Resurrection of the Daleks I have mixed feelings about this one. On its own, it's very good with menacing villains all with their own agendas and the Doctor and his companions trying to outfox them all. There's also some solid action, great costumes and set design and strong supporting characters in Stien and Styles. I particularly liked Stien's role as seeming coward who turns out to be a double agent... of sorts - and his arc was well realised. Turlough also gets his strongest storyline in a while, his previous self-serving nature fitting his stance here as a cold pragmatist who is still, in his way, attempting to do the right thing. Davros' fate was perhaps a bit too convenient but thematically it worked - he's more like the Daleks than even he realises. So with all this praise, what's the issue? It just doesn't really feel like Doctor Who - it's too bleak and violent with even the Doctor brandishing guns and threatening to execute people. When Tegan ends up leaving (for real this time?) because being a companion just isn't fun anymore, I can't really blame her.
Planet of Fire Two things that the Doctor seemed to have forgotten about - Turlough's past and Kamelion - finally get addressed in this story. Although it starts poorly (mainly due to the awfulness that is new companion Peri though she does improve as the story goes on), I thought it was pretty good as a whole. The dynamic of the Master controlling Kamelion was well done and I loved the revelation that he was just a little guy in a box the whole time. And it was good to finally get the backstory for Turlough even if his reunion with his brother was a bit blah. After two strong stories for a character I've had mixed feelings about previously, it's a pity this seems to mark his exit especially as I am less than thrilled by his replacement. While the superstitious people mistaking technology for God has been done a few times before, I think it was handled well here. I liked the ending for Timanov - even when his beliefs have been exposed as false, he still clings to his faith with an odd dignity even where it means his death. The ruthlessness of the previous story remains to some degree with the Doctor mercy-killing Kamelion and leaving the Master to seemingly burn to death. Maybe this is just the way things are going to be from now on?
The Caves of Androzani Another gritty, shooty story but some amusing banter in the early stages helps lighten the mood - I can't remember the last time The Doctor and his companion(s) had some funny banter. Banter aside, Peri is still a bit annoying though she does spend a good portion of the story semi-comatose. The complexity of the plot is well done here, there's so much going on and so many double-agents and triple-agents yet it's handled very well, never coming across as confusing or overburdened. The Phantom of the Opera inspiration is quite obvious but still engaging though the reactions to Jek's face were a bit silly - he's not that hideous that two characters would end up blundering to their death from the shock of seeing him without his mask. Jek's treatment of Peri is very creepy and uncomfortable to watch but (I assume) intentionally so. There's also an intensity to proceedings with a race against time to find an antidote and again some decent action scenes and cliffhangers. One oddity though is Morgus - he has such an unnatural way of talking, really fast with no emotion, perhaps to symbolise for him that everything is business. Even ignoring that, he often makes dramatic asides to the audience which is plain weird and not something the show has ever done before. Still, it's certainly makes for a memorable villain. I thought Stotz was just a plain great villain though, a vibrant performance for an utter scumbag. Finally, the Doctor's death was very well done - so much better than any of the previous deaths with him nobly sacrificing himself and fading with visions of previous companions and the Master. Great stuff all in all.
The Twin Dilemma Things have been a bit more gritty and down-to-earth of late, so it's good to go back to a more 'out there' story. And you don't get much more out there than bio-engineered super twins using magical maths to move planets about in order to cause a drought to kill off giant space weevils which then turns out to be a plan to actually unleash said weevils upon the galaxy as a whole. It reminded me of that episode of Red Dwarf where Lister plays pool with planets. I also liked the look of the aliens though not so much Mestor the main villain. And it's always fun when another Time Lord shows up, so long as it's not on Gallifrey. The story in general is a lot of fun. It's hard to judge Colin Baker's Doctor just yet given how unstable he is, but he's very entertaining here - this is the most amoral the Doctor's been since early Series 1! And while the past three Doctors were all snappy (not sure about Peri's assertion that the Fifth Doctor was always polite, but then she never saw how he treated Tegan and Nyssa), they never quite got to the point of throttling their companions! Not sure how long I'll be able to put up with his selfish child schtick if he continues in that way, but for now anyway I found it very amusing. The story isn't perfect - the climax is a bit dull and not enough was made of Drak's death given his established friendship with Azmael. Meanwhile Azmael's death wasn't as effecting as the writers were going for given how little we'd seen him interact with the Doctor. Hugo is also a bit annoying but Peri is actually very good here, taking charge of both Hugo and the Doctor and proving she can do more than whine. Nice story.
Series 21 ranking: 1. The Caves of Androzani 2. The Twin Dilemma 3. Resurrection of the Daleks 4. Planet of Fire 5. The Awakening 6. Frontios 7. Warriors of the Deep
So time to update my Doctor ranking. To the surprise of probably no-one, Peter Davison goes to the bottom of my list. He seemed just as grumpy as Pertwee and Tom Baker, but without the underlying warmth of the former or the wackiness of the latter. If he'd actually been more like he was in his final story, I probably would have ranked him higher but alas. It seems a case of diminishing returns when it comes to the Doctors with me - will Colin Baker be the first to break that pattern?
1. William Hartnell 2. Patrick Troughton 3. Jon Pertwee 4. Tom Baker 5. Peter Davison
As for my companion ranking, I did think Tegan had a few good moments on her return but not really enough for me to put her any higher than I did previously. Meanwhile Turlough was a nice idea - a somewhat amoral companion with his own agendas but I don't really feel enough was made of this and his character frequently felt all over the place. I also really had to suspend my disbelief with how forgiving the Doctor was towards him. I'll put him below Zoe but above Adric.
1. Jo 2. Leela 3. Ian 4. Sarah-Jane 5. Barbara 6. Romana 7. Ben 8. K-9 9. Liz 10. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart 11. Vikki 12. Steven 13. Tegan 14. Victoria 15. Nyssa 16. Harry 17. Zoe 18. Turlough 19. Adric 20. Jamie 21. Polly 22. Susan 23. Dodo
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Post by CharlesX on Oct 24, 2023 10:12:19 GMT
Thank you very much kieran great write-up as always. Was just thinking about Doctor Who having seen this Youtube vid about how Doctor Who deals with women, which I found focuses quite a bit on the recent era and not so much on the '60s where women were treated demurely as they were in Star Trek. My mum is a huge Peter Davison fan, I guess he brings a professionalism about the role as well as being distinctive and fitting, but he did come across as a touch aloof, particularly for kid audiences.
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Post by scouserob on Oct 24, 2023 11:08:43 GMT
Nice one, it seems ages since the previous season appeared here.
The 5th Doctor goes out with a whimper of a season but a banger of final episode. So many great visuals that somehow lodged themselves into my childhood memories, the big stone face of the Malus being slowly revealed over the story (though on my rewatch that seemed way too fast), and the Tractators.
The 6th Doctor is instantly unlikeable (a little bit too much so) with a Colin Baker performance that has an edge of nastiness to it.
I do like Colin's further performances in his brief stint as the Doctor. His behaviour in the introduction is instantly, and purposefully, dislikeable. Which is interesting, though it was a little bit too much so for me here, especially the physical violence towards Peri.
My rankings for the season: 1. The Caves of Androzani 2. Frontios 3. Resurrection of the Daleks 4. Planet of Fire 5. The Awakening (So much potential, but so very rushed. The 'burn the witch' predicament is resolved in about 40 seconds.) 6. Warriors of the Deep (A base under siege, story with the Sea Devils is somehow boring.) 7. The Twin Dilemma
I liked Tegan since the start of the 5th Doctor's reign and she places high in my list of favourite companions. I never warmed to Turlough.
Updated Companion Ranking: 1. Jo 2. Ian/Barbara 3. Romana 4. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart 5. Tegan 6. Ben/Polly 7. Jamie 8. Zoe 9. Vikki 10. Sarah-Jane 11. Nyssa 12. Steven 13. Victoria 14. Leela 15. Susan 16. Liz 17. Harry 18. K-9 19. Turlough 20. Adric 21. Dodo
The 5th Doctor always seems a bit cold and removed and I didn't like his relationships with his companions, especially Tegan and Nyssa, who were often treated as inconveniences. I never really got a sense that he cared that much for them or their fate, beyond a responsibility as a sort of expedition leader. Contrast that with the warmth in the Doctor's relationships with Susan, Jamie, Jo and Romana and the 5th goes to the bottom of my list.
Updated Doctor Ranking: 1. 2nd Doctor 2. 3rd Doctor 3. 1st Doctor 4. 4th Doctor 5. 5th Doctor
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,470
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Oct 24, 2023 12:44:44 GMT
Nice one, it seems ages since the previous season appeared here. Hopefully will do Series 22 a bit quicker! Yeah, I completely understand that. I suppose because his awful behavior was acknowledged and condemned it didn't bother me even though it was worse than the bad treatment the previous three doctors dished out which largely went without comment. Interesting that while we disagree a great deal about Frontios and The Twin Dilemma, our ranking otherwise is very similar. I wouldn't mind another attempt at a semi-villainous companion. I did speculate about Romana possibly being an unwitting agent of The Black Guardian and I was pleased that this initially seemed to be the direction for Turlough. But in the end, his moral compass and motives were too inconsistent for the character to really work. It seemed like the writers bottled it a bit with him.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Oct 31, 2023 6:23:53 GMT
Warriors of the DeepThis story has probably the silliest looking sequence in the show so far where a middle-aged lady tries to kung-fu kick a rubbery pantomime horse. Thatcher called a snap election in mid-1983 which caught everyone by surprise - BBC included. Suddenly the studio space scheduled for "Warriors" was to be needed for election coverage. The producer either had to bring shooting forward a couple of weeks or lose the story altogether. He chose the first option, but this rushed things. The Myrka monster was still dripping with wet paint when it went in front of cameras in the studio. The AwakeningI didn't realise when I started this that it was only a two-parter - maybe if I had, I'd be a bit better disposed to it. Was originally pitched a 4-parter and at some point truncated to 2. Resurrection of the DaleksI have mixed feelings about this one. On its own, it's very good with menacing villains all with their own agendas and the Doctor and his companions trying to outfox them all. This was the story planned to close season 20 till a strike nixed it. It has far too many sub-plots - the Time Lord High Council assassination with robot duplicates plot comes in goes in like 2 scenes. Planet of FireTwo things that the Doctor seemed to have forgotten about - Turlough's past and Kamelion - finally get addressed in this story. Kamelion was included in the show because the producer was promised it would work. It didn't. And so this story was commissioned soon after to write Kamelion out. A deleted scene for "The Awakening" featured the robot. The Caves of AndrozaniAnother gritty, shooty story but some amusing banter in the early stages helps lighten the mood - I can't remember the last time The Doctor and his companion(s) had some funny banter. After a strike killed the final story of season 20, the producer didn't want to risk having Davison's final story hit by industrial action so he has Davison bow out one story early. In the end the following story "Twin Dilemma" was hit by industrial action though the producer was able to salvage this. The Twin DilemmaThings have been a bit more gritty and down-to-earth of late, so it's good to go back to a more 'out there' story. The plan was for the Sixth Doctor to start off unlikeable and slowly be redeemed. The unfortunate domestic abuse connotations of the Doctor strangling Peri leaving her the impression of suffering from 'battered wife syndrome' did the show no favours with some of the audience. Still Season 22 that followed would rate around the same as this and season 20. Series 21 ranking: 1. The Caves of Androzani 2. The Twin Dilemma 3. Resurrection of the Daleks 4. Planet of Fire 5. The Awakening 6. Frontios 7. Warriors of the Deep "Twin Dilemma" is the least liked DW story of all time. It has consistently polled last since 1984, not just for the season but for the show overall. Some fans have even accused DWM (Doctor Who Magazine) of trying to obfuscate this with the 2023 60th anniversary poll by not ranking all the stories together as they have done in the past, but just by doctor (although even here it still polled last of the 6th Doctor). 1. William Hartnell 2. Patrick Troughton 3. Jon Pertwee 4. Tom Baker 5. Peter Davison Davison is my personal fav Doctor even as I can acknowledge the weaknesses of some of the stories.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,470
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Oct 31, 2023 9:51:27 GMT
"Twin Dilemma" is the least liked DW story of all time. It has consistently polled last since 1984, not just for the season but for the show overall. Some fans have even accused DWM (Doctor Who Magazine) of trying to obfuscate this with the 2023 60th anniversary poll by not ranking all the stories together as they have done in the past, but just by doctor (although even here it still polled last of the 6th Doctor). I really buck the trend with that one I guess. The opposite of The Ark in Space which is apparently heralded as one of the best stories ever for reasons I cannot fathom, but bored the life out of me. One thing you can't say about The Twin Dilemma is that it's boring! What issue of DWM is this poll in? Wouldn't mind giving it a read through once I finish the show.
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Post by a moderator on Oct 31, 2023 13:58:41 GMT
"Twin Dilemma" is the least liked DW story of all time. It has consistently polled last since 1984, not just for the season but for the show overall. Some fans have even accused DWM (Doctor Who Magazine) of trying to obfuscate this with the 2023 60th anniversary poll by not ranking all the stories together as they have done in the past, but just by doctor (although even here it still polled last of the 6th Doctor). I really buck the trend with that one I guess. The opposite of The Ark in Space which is apparently heralded as one of the best stories ever for reasons I cannot fathom, but bored the life out of me. One thing you can't say about The Twin Dilemma is that it's boring! What issue of DWM is this poll in? Wouldn't mind giving it a read through once I finish the show. One of the members of this forum has been standing up for Dilemma in Who fandom for decades, so you're not alone. On the topic of fan conspiracies regarding the poll, there's also one suggesting that the unpopularity of certain Capaldi and Whittaker stories would have resulted in Dilemma's not polling last this time, and DWM changed the way the results were presented to hide that 'fact'. The poll results are spread across multiple issues. Each Doctor's stories have been ranked in isolation from the rest of the series (barring McGann, for obvious reasons), and the results were published two Doctors at a time over the course of issues 589-594. The top 3 stories for each Doctor (plus McGann's one-off) went through to a final vote-off, the results of which have yet to be revealed.
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