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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Jun 18, 2013 21:26:04 GMT
For the 50th anniversary year I am currently watching the series from the start. This is something I've never done before (watching the show in order) and will be filling in the missing episode gaps with either the BBC DVD animated episodes or the Loose Canon reckons.
Currently I am halfway through The Dalek Invasion of Earth.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 19, 2013 12:34:58 GMT
For LC recons, you know about El Doctorio on Youtube, right? I'm kinda doing something similar to you, though over a couple of years. No mad dash to get all the DVDs by November, I'd rather wait until they come down to a sensible price--I prefer to pay £6-£7.50 where possible, though I'll fork out a bit more for ones I really want to get (e.g. Zygons and animated Ice Warriors). I'm currently up to The Creature from the Pit next, though I'll have to go back and watch about four that haven't/hadn't yet been released until recently (Tenth Planet, Ice Warriors, Mind of Evil, Zygons). Any you've been particularly impressed by yet? Over the very early serials, I thought The Romans was a lot of fun.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Jun 20, 2013 3:58:44 GMT
For LC recons, you know about El Doctorio on Youtube, right? I've a friend who puts them (as files) onto a DVD for me to watch on the TV via my blu-ray player. (He even supplied me with the IL animated Mission to the Unknown.) I'm kinda doing something similar to you, though over a couple of years. No mad dash to get all the DVDs by November, I'm in no rush either, hence why I am only halfway through The Dalek Invasion of Earth! I only watch one episode at at a time and haven't managed anything close to one a day. Any you've been particularly impressed by yet? Over the very early serials, I thought The Romans was a lot of fun. It was the first time I've "seen" Marco Polo and I wasn't hugely impressed with it. The Sensorites, The Reign of Terror, and Planet of Giants have also been new experiences for me. An Unearthly Child (just the first episode) rattled along nicely, but many of the other stories suffer from pacing issues due to length. I don't mind a longer story if it doesn't involve people standing around telling each other what they already know for the sake of marking time. The pick from this bunch so far? Probably The Aztecs.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 21, 2013 12:46:40 GMT
Interesting...The Aztecs was probably my least favourite of the first season or two. The whole "shaman who distrusts the newcomers and wants to sacrifice them all" thing is just too contrived and a bit lazy. [Edit: I call it Convenient Antagonist Syndrome".] For some reason I have a soft spot for the interminably stretched Marco Polo. Maybe it's the colour version by LC, or maybe it's those maps that keep popping up to display the journeys that I like...reminds me a bit of the Lone Wolf books!
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Jun 21, 2013 22:40:47 GMT
Interesting...The Aztecs was probably my least favourite of the first season or two. The whole "shaman who distrusts the newcomers and wants to sacrifice them all" thing is just too contrived and a bit lazy. [Edit: I call it Convenient Antagonist Syndrome".] For some reason I have a soft spot for the interminably stretched Marco Polo. Maybe it's the colour version by LC, or maybe it's those maps that keep popping up to display the journeys that I like...reminds me a bit of the Lone Wolf books! With Marco Polo what annoyed me was the Scooby Doo-level, obviously evil Tegana, that for 6 episodes everyone but Marco can see is the bad guy. That part of the plot I found farcical.
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Post by a moderator on Sept 30, 2013 15:27:28 GMT
I started watching the series in order and reviewing it an episode at a time (since the term gets used to mean more than one thing, I'll clarify that that's 'episode' as in 25-minute instalment rather than entire story) some years back, but stalled a couple of hundred episodes in. The reviews are still online, if anyone's interested. 'An Unearthly Child' is here, and subsequent posts cover the following stories up to 'The Dominators'. Pity that none of the DW-based gamebooks have been that good. Unless you count 'Spectral Stalkers'.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Sept 30, 2013 22:33:17 GMT
I'm two episodes into "The Web Planet". Okay going so far, given I'm watching just one episode at a time.
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Post by outspaced on Oct 8, 2013 17:08:24 GMT
Wonder which episodes have recently been found. Hopefully they won't be episodes that have already been animated!
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Oct 8, 2013 19:20:37 GMT
Wonder which episodes have recently been found. Hopefully they won't be episodes that have already been animated! The current rumour is all of "Enemy of the World" and 2,4-6 of "Web of Fear". Been following this rumour on forum threads for two years now!
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Post by outspaced on Oct 8, 2013 19:35:56 GMT
Assuming that's true...shame for Barry Letts that he couldn't hold on for a few more years to provide commentary for Enemy of the World.
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Post by a moderator on Oct 11, 2013 17:03:39 GMT
And the rumour was true. The missing episode 3 of 'Web' means we still don't have Lethbridge-Stewart's introductory scene (or a chance to see if the visuals make any sense of the episode 2 cliffhanger resolution), but it's great to have 'Enemy' back in its entirety and be able to see what nuances Patrick Troughton brought to his dual role. I've been enjoying rereading my reviews of the two stories and seeing all the no longer applicable regrets expressed at the non-existence of episodes. Time to update my Christmas list.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Oct 11, 2013 19:26:30 GMT
I've the DVDs on pre-order! Actually, in ep 3 of "Web" there is no scene where the Doctor meets the Brig - it happens 'off camera'.
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Post by a moderator on Oct 12, 2013 15:18:00 GMT
I know the Doctor doesn't meet Lethbridge-Stewart in episode 3, but that's the one in which the character makes his first proper appearance (IIRC, it's not even Nicholas Courtney playing the unidentified soldier partially glimpsed by the viewers in episode 2).
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Oct 13, 2013 19:43:09 GMT
So let's hope the rumours of other finds are true also!
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Post by stevendoig on Dec 7, 2013 21:05:19 GMT
Hence why I'm NOT doing a marathon at the moment! - I'll be mightily cheesed off if I get through the black & white stuff only for the rumoured 90 episode 'omnirumour' thingy turns oot tae be true!!
Watched Enemy of the world on the anniversary - that was awfy braw!
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Dec 7, 2013 21:17:48 GMT
Hence why I'm NOT doing a marathon at the moment! - I'll be mightily cheesed off if I get through the black & white stuff only for the rumoured 90 episode 'omnirumour' thingy turns oot tae be true!! Watched Enemy of the world on the anniversary - that was awfy braw! The rumour is it'll take the next 3 years (2014-2016) to release it all so :shrug: I'm only at The Space Museum and I'm not fussed if I have to re-watch stuff - it's Doctor Who, my favourite programme after all. And any way, watching actual episodes will be totally different to watching animations/recons.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 3, 2021 0:19:05 GMT
I recently subscribed to Britbox (mainly so I could watch the Box of Delights over Christmas) and thought I might give some classic Dr Whos a go. I'm not anything close to being a Who buff (in fact, I've barely seen any, even much of the revamped series) and watching the whole lot seems a bit daunting. Are there any particular storylines people here would recommend? Maybe one or two for each Doctor to give me a flavour.
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Post by Peter on Jan 5, 2021 8:39:53 GMT
I recently subscribed to Britbox (mainly so I could watch the Box of Delights over Christmas) and thought I might give some classic Dr Whos a go. I'm not anything close to being a Who buff (in fact, I've barely seen any, even much of the revamped series) and watching the whole lot seems a bit daunting. Are there any particular storylines people here would recommend? Maybe one or two for each Doctor to give me a flavour. The Romans was good, I think The Web Planet has good reviews, which I agree with, and The Myth Makers also I think from memory (although it is only available as a re-creation from stills). That's what I recall. You could try watching all the Dalek stories from 1963 onwards, to see how they evolve from just "some threatening aliens" to become the Doctor's arch-enemies. If you want to move on to the modern version, there is a story arc that could be worth watching, but shouldn't be revealed prematurely: Watch the episodes involving River Song, in order of her time-line. This would make for an interesting experience after you have learnt what her story actually is. I have avoided the CGI re-creations - they look too much like pre-school cartoons for my liking.
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Post by stevendoig on Jan 9, 2021 21:07:26 GMT
Hartnell - an unearthly child, dalek invasion
Troughton - Tomb of the cybermen, ind robber
Pertwee - ambassadors of death, terror of the autons, three doctors (just coz)
T Baker - ark in space, you MUST watch City of death
Davison - five doctors, caves of androzani
C Baker - (SIGH) - Revelation of the daleks then please yersel...
McCoy - curse of fenric, survival
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 9, 2021 21:30:01 GMT
Hartnell - an unearthly child, dalek invasion Troughton - Tomb of the cybermen, ind robber Pertwee - ambassadors of death, terror of the autons, three doctors (just coz) T Baker - ark in space, you MUST watch City of death Davison - five doctors, caves of androzani C Baker - (SIGH) - Revelation of the daleks then please yersel... McCoy - curse of fenric, survival Ah thanks. I've just decided to work my way through series 1 until I get bored and then I might leap ahead. Really enjoying Hartnell's performance so far and his Doctor's rather amoral personality although Susan's hysterical screaming is wearing pretty thin!
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Post by Peter on Jan 12, 2021 4:55:39 GMT
Hartnell - an unearthly child, dalek invasion Troughton - Tomb of the cybermen, ind robber Pertwee - ambassadors of death, terror of the autons, three doctors (just coz) T Baker - ark in space, you MUST watch City of death Davison - five doctors, caves of androzani C Baker - (SIGH) - Revelation of the daleks then please yersel... McCoy - curse of fenric, survival Ah thanks. I've just decided to work my way through series 1 until I get bored and then I might leap ahead. Really enjoying Hartnell's performance so far and his Doctor's rather amoral personality although Susan's hysterical screaming is wearing pretty thin! I believe Carol Ann Ford quit the series because she found it demeaning that her character was required to scream as a default response to every peril. Probably, she felt that, in these modern times, women should be portrayed as a bit more empowered than that.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 12, 2021 10:31:26 GMT
Ah thanks. I've just decided to work my way through series 1 until I get bored and then I might leap ahead. Really enjoying Hartnell's performance so far and his Doctor's rather amoral personality although Susan's hysterical screaming is wearing pretty thin! I believe Carol Ann Ford quit the series because she found it demeaning that her character was required to scream as a default response to every peril. Probably, she felt that, in these modern times, women should be portrayed as a bit more empowered than that. Can't say I blame her! Plus, I know Susan's meant to be a teenager but isn't she meant to have had a few adventures under her belt by the time the series starts? Yet she always seems far more shocked about everything they encounter than Ian and Barbara do. Ah well, still enjoying it so far. I'm on to the Keys of Marinus now. I might do brief reviews of all the Series 1 storylines here when I finish it.
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Post by a moderator on Jan 12, 2021 14:09:07 GMT
I believe Carol Ann Ford quit the series because she found it demeaning that her character was required to scream as a default response to every peril. Probably, she felt that, in these modern times, women should be portrayed as a bit more empowered than that. It was worse than that - in the original character outlines she was more empowered, so the screamer to which Susan was often reduced was not even the role Carole Ann Ford signed up to play.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jan 12, 2021 19:49:53 GMT
I believe Carol Ann Ford quit the series because she found it demeaning that her character was required to scream as a default response to every peril. Probably, she felt that, in these modern times, women should be portrayed as a bit more empowered than that. It was worse than that - in the original character outlines she was more empowered, so the screamer to which Susan was often reduced was not even the role Carole Ann Ford signed up to play. 'Screamers' are rather annoying aren't they? Maybe they didn't used to be so irritating to people in the past, but I really notice them now. The Liz Shaw character early on in the Pertwee era showed the right way, I think, but maybe with a bit of the sarcasm reined in.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Jan 14, 2021 2:15:46 GMT
I can only really comment on the Sylvester McCoy days as I've never really gone back to watch stuff which was on before I was around in any great depth. Doigy is definitely right to recommend The Curse of Fenric which is perhaps where the 7th doctor peaked. However, that refers back a bit through McCoy's time, so it's maybe not ideal to jump straight into that before seeing anything earlier. It's worth having been introduced to Ace and seen something of how the doctor's character changes over the whole arc. Ace is introduced in Dragonfire in the first McCoy series, which is not too bad in itself (even if it does feature a literal cliffhanger so ridiculous that you may be reduced to yelling "Why?! Why are you doing that?? WHY?!"). WRT the current discussion, there's a scene in which the outgoing companion Mel and Ace are confronted by a monstrous creature. Mel screams the house down; Ace stays silent, maybe indicating a change in showrunners' intentions. (IIRC Bonnie Langford wasn't a fan of how her character Mel was realised on screen, partly because of the screaming and partly because "How come she's a computer programmer who's never allowed to go near any computers?") The Daleks storyline (Remembrance of the Daleks) is a pretty good one too, if you can cope with the baseball bats. So [Dragonfire –> Daleks –> Fenric] might be a good minimalist runthrough.
I could certainly give more comments on episodes if you wanted. They vary in both quality and character quite a bit.
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kieran
Baron
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 14, 2021 10:54:47 GMT
I could certainly give more comments on episodes if you wanted. They vary in both quality and character quite a bit.
Thanks, definitely like to hear your thoughts if and when I get to Sylvester McCoy. I'm actually quite looking forward to seeing the Paul McGann movie again - used to love it as a child but haven't watched it in about 20 years. I hear most fans hate it so I wonder if it stands up to my memory of it.
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Post by a moderator on Jan 14, 2021 14:56:19 GMT
WRT the current discussion, there's a scene in which the outgoing companion Mel and Ace are confronted by a monstrous creature. Mel screams the house down; Ace stays silent, maybe indicating a change in showrunners' intentions. Just before they started filming that scene, Bonnie Langford apologised to Sophie Aldred for the damage she was about to inflict on her eardrums.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Jan 26, 2021 1:49:04 GMT
Just a couple of days after we were talking about Sylvester McCoy and Bonnie Langford, this popped up new in my YouTube suggestions. It's a bit to advertise a box set of the 24th series – ie the one which the seventh Doctor and Mel shared. I think it's quite good fun if you remember the series. (Otherwise it would be fairly baffling.)
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 26, 2021 10:13:30 GMT
Well, in the end I was enjoying Series 1 so much, I watched the whole thing and am now stuck in to Series 2.
A strange thing is, like that other iconic BBC series Mrs Brown's Boys, the actors frequently fluff their lines. I assume it wasn't filmed live so could they not afford reshoots? Or maybe it was to make the dialogue seem more natural? Strange anyway.
Some reviews:
An Unearthly Child - Starts off almost like a Twilight Zone episode. While much of the mystery is lost these days, I can still appreciate it was pretty well constructed and there is a feeling of unease. The Doctor comes across borderline villainous for the most part, perhaps only restrained by Susan from doing something very nasty to the teachers to keep them quiet. He also seems to lack any empathy with the cavemen that appear later in the story though there are glimmers of something softer in him from time to time. Speaking of the cavemen, I felt like that aspect dragged on for one episode too many. There was too much back and forthing and if you took a drink every time someone yells "Fire!" you would have to be rushed to A&E. Still, for the most part I enjoyed this story and thought it did a great job of introducing the characters.
The Daleks - The problem with the Daleks is they're so firmly entrenched in public consciousness now, it's hard to really buy them as mysterious and threatening as no doubt they were when this first aired. It's not a bad story but I feel more could have been made of it - it might have been more interesting if the Daleks were initially happy to deal with the Thals, only turning more murderous when they found out they needed an irradiated atmosphere to survive. Also I thought there would be a revelation as to how the Daleks started off as philosophers and became violent and how the Thals went the other way, but I guess that might be revealed in a later episode. The most fun bits were at the start of the story, the Doctor tricking everyone into exploring the city and first encountering and outwitting the Daleks. I think the second half dragged badly and to be honest, the Daleks seemed far too easy to overcome. There is an interesting moral dilemma - are the characters encouraging the Thals to fight for the Thals' benefit or their own? Though again, not much is made of this. Also, was it just me, or did it look like Ian pushed that poor Thal to his death?
The Edge of Destruction - Starts well, this one. The tensions that have built up amongst the characters start to rear their heads, the Doctor having essentially taken Ian and Barbara hostage and then endangered them by taking silly risks. This adds to the sense of paranoia - are the characters plotting against one another? Is there a malign force on the ship? No, just a faulty spring on one of the buttons - oh well! I did like that there was some fallout from all this with the Doctor finally having to apologise to Barbara, adding some substance to what is otherwise a very slight story.
The Keys of Marinus - I thought some of the previous stories were a bit slow-paced but this goes to the other extreme: abrupt scene changes, moments where the viewer has to fill in the blanks (to the point where I actually checked a few times if BritBox had skipped ahead somehow), and scenarios that could have been stories in their own right dealt with in one episode. Not too sure what happened in the missing Marco Polo story, but the Doctor now has a stick, Ian now has a cool jacket and everyone seems a lot more friendly to one another than they were in The Edge of Destruction so good to see that character development is not being neglected. The first part where brains in jars enslave people in a world of illusion was interesting but far too easily solved, the jungle sequence was ok, the snowy bit had a compelling villain but those three goofy knights let it down slightly. The breakneck pace finally slows up a bit after that but sadly it's for the worst part of the story - a long drawn out murder mystery with dull and unconvincing motivations. Finally, the climax of the story is a damp squib with stupid villains and no real pay off from finding all the keys. A pity.
The Aztecs - Barbara reminds us of at the start that there is more to Aztec culture than human sacrifice. But is sure seems to play a massive part if this story is anything to go by! That aside, this was definitely the best story of Series 1. Excellent pacing, a fun villain, interesting side characters and all of the main characters take on interesting roles (apart from maybe Susan). Barbara pretending to be a goddess was my favourite part, especially her interaction with the priest of knowledge. This sequence also raises interesting considerations on time travel - can the past be changed for the better? Barbara thinks so, but the Doctor disagrees and it's hinted he has some painful experience in that regard. The ending is pretty downbeat, but perfectly fitting with the central dilemma.
The Sensorites - This one bored the life out of me. After an initial creepy opening, the Sensorites are soon revealed as pretty unthreatening and we're treated to an overlong conspiracy from the city administrator - a conspiracy that only enjoys some initial success due to how mind meltingly stupid the Sensorites seem. This stupidity is also displayed by how they were mystified by what was causing the illness killing so many of them until the Doctor works it out in about thirty seconds. The last episode where the cause of the poisoning is revealed to be humans who have become almost feral from their time hiding in the aqueduct tunnels is more interesting but doesn't really get enough screen time. Also of interest is Susan actually doing something more than screaming as well as revealing that she and the Doctor are aliens which was probably quite a shock at the time. But overall, I was glad when this was over.
Series 1 ranking: 1. The Aztecs 2. An Unearthly Child 3. The Daleks 4. The Edge of Destruction 5. The Keys of Marinus 6. The Sensorites
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Post by a moderator on Jan 26, 2021 15:11:18 GMT
Reshoots were theoretically possible, but because of the cost they were strictly limited - and some directors seemed to have a much more 'That'll do' attitude than others. Season 2 includes some classic blunders that were not considered worthy of a second take.
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