kieran
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Oct 31, 2023 14:38:40 GMT
One of the members of this forum has been standing up for Dilemma in Who fandom for decades, so you're not alone. Ah well, that's good. That seems more believable actually. I can't really see why the magazine editors would want to prevent Dilemma coming bottom, but I could understand why they might not want to draw attention to more recent stories being unpopular. Although I imagine there's no conspiracy and the editors just wanted to do a different format from previous. I see, thanks.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Oct 31, 2023 18:20:12 GMT
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,470
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 1, 2023 16:33:56 GMT
Out of interest, I compared my top and bottom ranked stories of each series with how they ranked in this poll. Stories that I seem to like a lot more than the average fan: The Invisible Enemy - K9 and Fantastic Voyage - what's not to like? Colony in Space - I'm a sucker for lost civilizations, stories about colonization and exploitation, and Gail Platt The Monster of Peladon - Can understand this as it is a retread though for me it's one that fixed the issues with the previous. Four to Doomsday - I'm even more of a sucker for Burt Kwouk than I am for Gail Platt The Time Monster - I love the more out-there stories and this is probably my favourite use of the Master so far. Stories that I seem to like a lot less than the average fan: Terror of the Zygons - Seriously? The Loch Ness Monster one is a fan favourite? Fair enough I suppose. The Deadly Assassin - Very surprised by this one given how uninspiring Gallifrey was revealed to be The Ark in Space - Still say it's boring. Although apparently it may have inspired Alien which I also am alone in thinking boring. So maybe I'm the problem.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Nov 2, 2023 9:06:20 GMT
Stories that I seem to like a lot less than the average fan: Terror of the Zygons - Seriously? The Loch Ness Monster one is a fan favourite? Fair enough I suppose. The Deadly Assassin - Very surprised by this one given how uninspiring Gallifrey was revealed to be The Ark in Space - Still say it's boring. Although apparently it may have inspired Alien which I also am alone in thinking boring. So maybe I'm the problem. Some of this can be put down to ‘received fan wisdom’ in that those 3 stories all come from season 12-14 (the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era) that very much appealed to the fans who were now in their late teens/early 20s who’d grown up with the show since 1963. This is the same period of time that UK fandom organised itself (the DW Appreciation Society started around then) and many fanzines began to appear, spreading the supposed wisdom that seasons 12-14 were DW at its peak.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 2, 2023 13:15:22 GMT
Fellow Whovians will be delighted BBCiplayer has released every Doctor Who episode along with all spin-offs and new docs to celebrate the 60th anniversary! Are there any favourite stories Whovians would recommend? I'm thinking not to necessarily see the acclaimed ones as a first choice, not only because I've seen them more than once before, but they have their flaws: An Unearthly Child is very unpolished (as many stories with the first Doctor can be), Genesis Of The Daleks is dour and moralizing, Earthshock is slick but full of plot-holes etc.
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Post by scouserob on Nov 2, 2023 15:29:00 GMT
Fellow Whovians will be delighted BBCiplayer has released every Doctor Who episode along with all spin-offs and new docs to celebrate the 50th anniversary! Are there any favourite stories Whovians would recommend? I'm thinking not to necessarily see the acclaimed ones as a first choice, not only because I've seen them more than once before, but they have their flaws: An Unearthly Child is very unpolished (as many stories with the first Doctor can be), Genesis Of The Daleks is dour and moralizing, Earthshock is slick but full of plot-holes etc. Here are all the stories that I rated 5 out of 5 from Classic Who: (Some are animated.) I'd put the Five Doctors down to the whole nostalgia overload of seeing everyone together. 😂 The Daleks The Dalek Invasion of Earth Galaxy 4 The Tenth Planet The Moonbase The Macra Terror The Evil of the Daleks The Tomb of the Cybermen The Abominable Snowmen The Enemy of the World The Web of Fear Fury from the Deep The Invasion The Seeds of Death The War Games Doctor Who and the Silurians The Ambassadors of Death Terror of the Autons The Sea Devils The Green Death The Time Warrior Genesis of the Daleks The Seeds of Doom The Masque of Mandragora The Deadly Assassin The Robots of Death The Talons of Weng-Chiang The Invasion of Time The Ribos Operation The Pirate Planet City of Death Shada Meglos State of Decay The Keeper of Traken Kinda Black Orchid Earthshock Mawdryn Undead The Five Doctors Frontios The Caves of Androzani Attack of the Cybermen Remembrance of the Daleks Silver Nemesis Battlefield The Curse of Fenric
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,470
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 2, 2023 16:03:13 GMT
Nice to see this get some love.
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Post by a moderator on Nov 2, 2023 16:45:31 GMT
Fellow Whovians will be delighted BBCiplayer has released every Doctor Who episode along with all spin-offs and new docs to celebrate the 50th anniversary! Are there any favourite stories Whovians would recommend? I'm thinking not to necessarily see the acclaimed ones as a first choice, not only because I've seen them more than once before, but they have their flaws: An Unearthly Child is very unpolished (as many stories with the first Doctor can be), Genesis Of The Daleks is dour and moralizing, Earthshock is slick but full of plot-holes etc.
[pedant]60th anniversary, surely. Or were the wheels of BBC bureaucracy grinding particularly slowly while getting this approved? Also, unless things have been resolved very recently, An Unearthly Child (or whatever you prefer to call the opening 4-parter) will not be available because the son of the scriptwriter is blocking its release owing to a paranoid-sounding vendetta against the Beeb.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 2, 2023 16:56:45 GMT
Fellow Whovians will be delighted BBCiplayer has released every Doctor Who episode along with all spin-offs and new docs to celebrate the 50th anniversary! Are there any favourite stories Whovians would recommend? I'm thinking not to necessarily see the acclaimed ones as a first choice, not only because I've seen them more than once before, but they have their flaws: An Unearthly Child is very unpolished (as many stories with the first Doctor can be), Genesis Of The Daleks is dour and moralizing, Earthshock is slick but full of plot-holes etc.
[pedant]60th anniversary, surely. Or were the wheels of BBC bureaucracy grinding particularly slowly while getting this approved? Also, unless things have been resolved very recently, An Unearthly Child (or whatever you prefer to call the opening 4-parter) will not be available because the son of the scriptwriter is blocking its release owing to a paranoid-sounding vendetta against the Beeb. Thank you a moderator as I did wonder why An Unearthly Child wasn't there when I looked!
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Post by a moderator on Nov 2, 2023 18:08:42 GMT
As regards recommendations, I ranked each Doctor's stories for my voting in the recent DWM poll. Didn't keep track of the numbers, but they're still sorted favourite-to-least favourite on the spreadsheet, so here are my top three per Doctor for the 1963-1989 run:
An Unearthly Child The Aztecs The Savages
The Power of the Daleks The War Games Enemy of the World
Spearhead From Space Inferno Carnival of Monsters
City of Death The Robots of Death The Ark in Space
Enlightenment The Caves of Androzani Castrovalva
Vengeance on Varos Revelation of the Daleks The Two Doctors
The Curse of Fenric Remembrance of the Daleks The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 2, 2023 18:13:50 GMT
Thank you for this! Interested DWM readers ranked City Of Death so high, I'm very much a fan but City Of Death has been criticised over plot shortcomings and being very Douglas Adams (neither of those things seem to me big criticisms).
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Post by a moderator on Nov 2, 2023 21:24:53 GMT
My wording was a bit ambiguous, and open to misinterpretation, so I've edited it. Just to be clear, the previous post was my top 3 per Doctor, not the poll results. Though there was some overlap - here's what the readers chose:
The Dalek Invasion of Earth The Time Meddler The Daleks' Master Plan
The War Games Tomb of the Cybermen Power of the Daleks
Inferno The Green Death Spearhead from Space
City of Death Genesis of the Daleks Pyramids of Mars
The Caves of Androzani Earthshock The Five Doctors
Revelation of the Daleks Vengeance on Varos The Two Doctors
Remembrance of the Daleks The Curse of Fenric Survival
These all appeared on the online voting form for the final phase of the poll, so I'm not giving away anything that DWM hadn't already made freely available to anyone who went looking.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,470
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 15, 2023 17:08:31 GMT
Series 22 was an odd one that dipped very badly in the middle. But it also had two of my favourite stories thus far. I do quite like the 45 min run time - it avoids time being wasted on recaps and stupid cliffhangers. Though from what I can see, we'll be back to the standard episode length next series. Attack of the Cybermen
Good grief, Cybermen seem to have become very easy to kill. What happened to all that weakness to gold stuff? It seems now a couple of shots from a WW2 revolver or a good whack with a two-by-four and down they go. That aside, I thought this was an interesting Cybermen story with some nice call backs to The Tenth Planet and Tomb of the Cybermen though there are some continuity issues (the world seems nowhere near advanced enough for the space travel seen in The Tenth Planet to be only a year away; also was it not established in Invasion of the Dinosaurs that the past can indeed be altered?). I was also very pleased to see Lytton from Resurrection of the Daleks back, a great menacing villain with an added dimension of reasonability here. Seeing him bossing about the diamond thieves was good fun and it's a shame there wasn't more of this. Meanwhile, the Doctor isn't quite so unstable here though he's still a mixture of immature and condescending. Luckily, Peri gives as good as she gets and the banter between them is very funny, feeling almost sitcom-level. There are weak points - the motivations of both Lytton and particularly the Cryons seem a bit ill-defined (are the Cryons helping Earth out of selfishness, revenge or altruism? - it seems to change constantly; and was Lytton really helping the Cryons or did he have an ulterior motive?). Two pretty annoying reject Cybermen take up too much screentime without their plot really going anywhere and there's way too much contrivance in the climax. There are really a lot of issues with this story when you think about it too much, but it's definitely enjoyable. Vengeance on Varos
I absolutely loved this one. We've seen dystopias before but this one is so creative, revealing through two ordinary residents hooked on the TV how a system that is on paper extremely democratic (citizens can vote on just about every issue and can dismiss governors as they wish) has somehow become something extremely brutal and restrictive. The planet is revealed to have started as a prison colony for the criminally insane and it is also being kept in starvation conditions by a delightfully grotesque alien. I love the complexity displayed - the governor is probably a decent sort, but the system makes him brutal and ruthless because there quite simply isn't any other way to live. When the two TV addicts finally get the promise of freedom and prosperity, they're both happy and dismayed - they simply don't know any other existence. Great as the setting is, the story isn't quite at that level. The maze of illusions is a bit lacking in imagination, more could really have been done with the cannibals and I don't know how Jason Connery ended up becoming the lead of Robin of Sherwood based on his wooden performance here. Still, the setting is so strong that I found I didn't care. Even the filler opening with the Tardis getting stalled and the Doctor falling into despair is very amusing. The Mark of the Rani
Putting the Master in this story was a mistake as he completely overshadows the titular Rani who would have been a decent villain herself. If you're expecting an explanation of how the Master survived apparently burning to ashes, well, you're not getting one here. This made me muse as to why the Master (and indeed the Doctor's other time-travelling enemies) always visit time periods in the same order as the Doctor. Perhaps this story should have been set where the Master hadn't yet been burnt to death rather than having him just survive somehow. Anyway, the Rani is an interesting character - I liked how dismissive she is of both the Doctor and the Master, and her arch pragmatism. Her only moral seems to be she doesn't like matter going to waste - rather than use land mines that blow folk up, they turn them into trees! It's a pity she doesn't really get the focus she should. Otherwise, it's a pretty poor story. The Master's plan doesn't really make any sense since bringing the Doctor to this time makes it harder for him to capture Faraday and Co. The Luddites are plain annoying and don't come across at all like they just need a good sleep. The action scenes are goofy (the Doctor rolling down a hill on a gurney felt very Last of the Summer Wine) and a decent sub-plot about Luke being made an agent of the Master never really comes to much. The Doctor gets some good speeches about morality which makes clear his seeming amorality in The Twin Dilemma was a temporary thing, but sadly his banter with Peri slips into the bullying nature of the previous two Doctors. The Two Doctors
I think this story suffers from two major missed opportunities. Firstly, what's the point of doing a story like this when the titular Doctors barely interact at all? Second, it would have been far more compelling if we, the viewers, were led to believe the Time Lords had carried out the attack on the space station rather than us knowing it was the Sontarans and just waiting for the Doctor to find that out too. Even aside from these problems, I thought this was a poor story. While it's nice to see Troughton back (and yes, even Jamie!), the plot is very weak, relying on contrivances and character stupidity to move things along. The Sontarans serve no real purpose and Dastari's character is just all over the place (if he was in on it, why did he need to be drugged anyway - other than to trick the viewer?). The most memorable thing about it is Shockeye, but he's more gross than funny and his speeches about eating start to wear a bit thin. A good chunk of the final episode is devoted to him and an Androgum-ified Doctor going for a meal while the other characters stroll casually around Seville looking for them. Probably seemed funnier on paper. And speaking of funniness or lack thereof, not only was actor/moth collector/restauranteur Oscar not very funny, his violent death just seemed completely out of tone. Finally, I just didn't like the idea that time travel requires some genetic component which only Time Lords possess. While I think inconsistencies are mostly avoided with the idea, I just plain don't like the concept. Is it me or are all these reunion stories quite disappointing? Ah well, at least Jamie gets to save the day for once. Timelash
Oh dear, what is going on with this series? Things start off OK(ish). There's some passable banter between Peri and the Doctor, I like a good dystopia, I also like stories where the Doctor returns to a planet he already visited, it looked like Peri might have something of substance to do, and there was great comic potential with time-travellers being mistaken for conjured spirits. But, none of these elements end up working - the banter devolves into bullying and manhandling, the dystopia is a bit silly (why send people to the 12th Century rather than just, y'know, killing them?), the planet in question is one the Doctor visited off-screen which seems like a missed opportunity (it also seems an odd period for the Doctor to have been visiting planets at all, given it was during the time he was largely stranded on Earth, working for UNIT), Peri's time with the rebels lasts about 5 seconds and her story turns into a crap rehash of The Caves of Androzani, and the time-traveller/ spirits mix-up is resolved in about 8 seconds. The worst thing about the story though is how leaden it is. The acting is either wooden on pantomime (Tekker reminds me of David Mitchell's supervillain from That Mitchell and Webb Look), the jokes mostly fall flat, the revelation that Hubert is actually HG Wells was too obvious, the action scenes are dull, one of the actresses even starts laughing in the middle of a scene where people are getting killed left and right, and the inside of the Timelash is very 'BBC studio'. The plot is also terrible - the Borad saves himself with a never before mentioned clone, the Doctor doesn't seem to care about advanced people ending up in the 12th Century, the aliens go from genocidal to reasonable for no apparent reason and finally, the writers don't even bother coming up with a reason as to how the Doctor saves himself at the end. Terrible story. Revelation of the Daleks
Wow, talk about a return to form. I'm a big Lexx fan and this is the most Lexx-like story so far. The idea of people having their bodies frozen in good faith only for them to be made into Daleks or their proteins used as a cheap food source is so wonderfully macabre and the death count here makes it feel like a black comedy at times. The performances are all very off-beat and unsettling from the Richard Bucket embalmer/lothario to the omniscient DJ (aside: what is going on with how Peri says 'DJ'? Though her delight at an American accent was quite sweet). A bad-ass knight and his squire were particularly entertaining and I loved the silent interplay between the knight and the Doctor in the climax. As for the music and sound-effects, it feels like the BBC used 99% of their sound budget for this story and it adds greatly to the unsettling atmosphere. The Daleks were also well used with a subtlety to their plans that we haven't seen since Power of the Daleks. I particularly enjoyed Davros and Kara's meetings where they artfully dance around the clear fact they don't trust one another in the slightest. I don't really know why Davros isn't dead but I liked that the events of Resurrection of the Daleks weren't completely ignored and proved important to the climax. I only have some very minor gripes - I didn't really buy Takis and Lilt turning out to be good guys, the cliffhanger is a bit crap and I could have done without the Doctor repeatedly calling Peri fat. But this is quite possibly my favourite story so far. Series 22 ranking:1. Revelation of the Daleks 2. Vengeance on Varos 3. Attack of the Cybermen 4. The Mark of the Rani 5. The Two Doctors 6. Timelash
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 15, 2023 17:37:23 GMT
Many thanks kieran great, I think i agree with your ranking as well or possibly I'd swap around Revelation Of The Daleks and Vengeance On Varos. The Rani was always one of my favourite villains, even if her stories were as variable as most Doctor Who; because she was another Time Lord beside the often-stereotyped Master? Because she was introduced later, after I was born and when I was watching? Because she was female, into science? I don't know if she was 'killed off' but could be brought back regardless like Davros, I would love that. Some critics have said Attack Of The Cybermen comes across as a second-rate rehash of Tomb Of The Cybermen, which is very much a classic, as you mentioned it introduces a number of plot elements which weren't present in Tomb Of The Cybermen but I'd agree it's a middling story probably saved by including Colin Baker and these iconic enemies. By this point Colin Baker was finding his feet playing the Doctor and increasingly his unlikable arrogance (which was more the writer's fault than his imo) was less noticeable than his theatrical personality and distinctive take on the Doctor. Some say the Doctor was too violent, but I think it's great even in a kids show to show that you can't always win through by talking and crying (like in the first Doctor Who film, telling the Thals they have to fight the Daleks).
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,470
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 16, 2023 10:28:25 GMT
The Rani was always one of my favourite villains Definitely looking forward to seeing more of her, hopefully without the Master trying to upstage her.
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Post by a moderator on Nov 16, 2023 19:37:31 GMT
Some of the flaws in The Two Doctors were a consequence of behind-the-scenes issues. Robert Holmes was presented with a 'shopping list' of elements that he had to include in the script, some of which he didn't want in his story. Originally the sequences on Earth were intended to take place in New Orleans, but after some hoped-for co-funding from an American studio fell through, everything had to be relocated to Seville, necessitating a load of rewrites.
The author of Timelash did include a technobabble explanation for the Doctor's survival, but for reasons best known to himself, the script editor cut it in favour of the much-derided "I'll explain one day."
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,470
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 16, 2023 22:52:38 GMT
Some of the flaws in The Two Doctors were a consequence of behind-the-scenes issues. Robert Holmes was presented with a 'shopping list' of elements that he had to include in the script, some of which he didn't want in his story. That definitely explains its inconsistent characters and pointless inclusions (eg The Sontarans).
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Nov 17, 2023 0:21:59 GMT
That definitely explains its inconsistent characters and pointless inclusions (eg The Sontarans). Yes, Holmes was more keen on new things - hence he had more enthusiasm for the Androgums than the Sontarans.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Nov 18, 2023 4:17:34 GMT
Capaldi era completed!
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Nov 18, 2023 4:20:32 GMT
Some critics have said Attack Of The Cybermen comes across as a second-rate rehash of Tomb Of The Cybermen, which is very much a classic, as you mentioned it introduces a number of plot elements which weren't present in Tomb Of The Cybermen but I'd agree it's a middling story probably saved by including Colin Baker and these iconic enemies. At the time, in the UK at least, repeats of old stories were non-existent and so re-visiting old stories was the only way to ‘experience’ them again - even more-so in the case of “Tomb” as it was only recovered in 1992.
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Post by scouserob on Nov 18, 2023 12:19:39 GMT
I've dug up my ratings for this season. I think most stories have a good core plot full of interesting ideas. I really like Colin Baker's Doctor in this season, though a lot of performances of the supporting characters seem off/strange, especially in Revelation of the Daleks.
I also never warmed to Peri. The 6th Doctor, for me, is the only one of the first 7 without a top tier companion.
Still, the average of the ratings I gave this season is higher than the each of the following three seasons and the previous two (and all of Nu Who, except 12's middle season which is about level).
1. Attack of the Cybermen 5/5 (Perfect tone match for the 6th Doctor, Lytton's return is welcome.)
2. Vengeance on Varos 4/5
3. Mark of the Rani 4/5 (I have to agree that the Rani made a great villain here. Would have been better without the Master.)
4. Timelash 4/5 (Paul Darrow, Avon from Blake's 7, stole the show and then was anti-climatically disposed of. 😂)
5. Revelation of the Daleks 3/5 (Orcini is magnificent.)
6. The Two Doctors 3/5 Lovely to see my favourite Doctor again. Bonus points for Jacqueline Pierce/Servalan being in it, and she makes a potentially worthy Villain for the Doctors. Shockeye and the Sontarons seemed to drag things down.
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kieran
Baron
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Post by kieran on Nov 18, 2023 18:37:03 GMT
a lot of performances of the supporting characters seem off/strange, especially in Revelation of the Daleks. Can't argue there though I felt they contributed to the odd atmosphere.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Dec 5, 2023 11:11:21 GMT
Series 23 wasn't great. 3 of the 4 stories were decent enough but let down by the over-arching 'Trial of a Time Lord' framing which was tedious and non-sensical. As an aside, it really bothered me who the heck was playing the Inquisitor as I just couldn't place her but knew I'd seen her before - turns out it's the woman from the Bisto ads.
The Mysterious Planet Hey, they've rejigged the theme tune! I hate it. Anyway, I really didn't like the framing of this story as part of a trial. For one thing, the Gallifreyans are still completely insufferable and foolish. For another thing, I just don't buy this non-interference policy when generally the Doctor stumbles into situations rather than seeking them out and when he does seek them out, it's generally because he's made to do so by the Time Lords. And then if they're going to accuse him of being interfering, why not choose a better example of this than where he stumbles into a threat to the universe? I don't buy that fewer people would have died if he'd left well alone. Then why would the recording presented to the court contain so many irrelevant details like banter between supporting characters? I could just ignore this if the script didn't keep highlighting it without providing a good explanation. Finally, there's a few points where it appears the Valeyard has manipulated scenes to remove what people are saying - but I mean the whole thing is clearly edited anyway - it's not like we're seeing everything. I pictured the Valeyard going through his footage and adding musical cues and whatnot. The only element I liked to these court scenes was the Doctor mocking the whole process for being stupid because it is. It's a pity because otherwise this story is decent. The setting is pretty cool - a post apocalyptic Earth moved to a whole new area of space with different societies at various level of technology and different understandings of the world - all of them wrong on some level. It reminded me of Face of Evil in that regard. I really liked the mercenaries Glitz and Dibber although Glitz seems far less of a sociopath than his opening dialogue suggests. The robot villain was also interesting - I liked his ethical debate with the Doctor as to whether he should value human life above robots/his own. Other elements were less successful - Peri hasn't much to do but cry, there's a few too many characters, some initially decent jokes are stretched a bit thin (eg the Canadian goose), and the robot and his sentry were too easily fooled. But wouldn't have been a bad opening at all if not for the horrible courtroom framing.
Mindwarp The courtroom scenes are still tedious though at least the Valeyard actually seems to have something of a case this time with the Doctor seemingly throwing innocents to the wolves left and right. Of course, there are still loads of scenes that have nothing to do with the case and the script keeps bringing this to our attention for some reason. As regards the actual story, the pacing is very odd. As an example, Peri escapes the Doctor and Sil, blunders into a woman who gives her a job, then is taken back to the Doctor who exposes her - why bother with all that instead of just having her get captured straight away? The story is riddled with sequences like this where a lot happens at once but then has little bearing on the overall plot. This is probably Peri's biggest role in a story what with the Doctor chumming with the baddies for most of it, but I didn't think it was a great turn from her overall - she overdoes the whiney exasperation thing a bit. Although I can't really blame her for being exasperated what with her friend betraying her and a very shouty man alternating between proposing to her and nearly getting them both killed. Her story is very tedious consisting mostly of scurrying round dark tunnels (a pity because the outside of the planet actually looked pretty cool - kinda like David Bowie's Ashes to Ashes music video) with Brian Blessed doing his Brian Blessed thing and making me reach for the volume down button (as an aside, I find it strange that Brian has never appeared in the show up to now). The Doctor story is better and I still find Sil very entertaining especially with his sucking up to his boss. I also enjoyed the scenes with the other Mentor who can't stand the noisiness of Brian Blessed. I was looking forward to a big reveal as to why the Doctor had turned bad but it never came - I guess it was just a ploy after all but the footage we saw didn't seem to fit with that unless it's building up to a big revelation that the Valeyard was tinkering with the footage. The pacing is better in the final episode, building up to a nice climax - which doesn't happen because the Time Lords whisk the Doctor out of time then let everyone get killed rather than at least giving the Doctor a chance to fix everything by non-lethal means. If poor Peri really is dead, this was a pretty abrupt and crap end to her story: lacking the emotional impact of Adric's death, seeming a plain nasty fate for one of the Doctor's kindest companions, and just further hammering home that the Time Lords are dicks.
Terror of the Vervoids Odd premise this - if the Doctor was able to look in the Matrix to see a future adventure of his, doesn't that mean that the Valeyard must fail to get the death sentence he's seeking? And couldn't the Time Lords watch the outcome of the trial and see that (presumably) the Valeyard has indeed been tinkering with the evidence? I also don't see how the Doctor providing evidence of his not interfering in this case (and to be honest, he interferes loads off his own bat before he's formally asked to get involved) clears him from interfering in other cases. If someone is accused of murder, it wouldn't be much of a defence for them to say: 'But think of all the people I didn't murder!' It's also feels a bit odd to have a new companion in place with only vague hints as to who the heck she is. All I can really say about Mel is she's plucky but somewhat annoying. Otherwise, I quite liked this story - it was a fun little murder mystery with some clever little clues and red herrings. I also liked the way the Commodore isn't some annoying hard-headed bureaucrat, but someone who implicitly trusts the Doctor even if he doesn't like him very much. The Vervoids were also pretty cool looking and I liked the Mogarians - though they seem like poor choices for co-conspirators given they can be killed by a glass of water. The main problem with it is there's no real sense of urgency to it all - it feels like all the characters seem to be taking it all in their stride bar Bruchner who alone seems to react according to the gravity of the situation. The atmosphere just felt a bit 'cosy murder mystery in space' which didn't really fit with what was at stake. As for the ending, I liked the idea of the Doctor in seeking to clear his name ends up confessing to an even greater crime, but shouldn't he have known that was a risk? And weren't the Time Lords wanting him to genocide the Daleks previously? It doesn't really make a lot of sense though I must admit I am interested to see how he's going to get out of this one.
The Ultimate Foe This story, quite frankly, cheats. The Doctor admitting to a crime to which there can be no defence under Gallifrey law is ignored, then seemingly acknowledged, then ignored again. Remember how no-one was able to tamper with the Matrix? Well, turns out nearly everyone has a secret key to get in though don't worry too much about how they got them. A cliffhanger where the Doctor gets swallowed by quicksand? Don't worry, it's all an illusion. That scene where Mel rushes out of the court to save the Doctor? That's an illusion too even though the Doctor wasn't even there to witness it so I guess it was an illusion for the audience. A major conspiracy about the Council of Time Lords uncovered and the launch of an insurrection in Gallifrey masterminded by the Master? Don't bother your head about them, the writers certainly aren't going to once the charges against the Doctor are dropped. As for the Valeyard, turns out he is a later incarnation of the Doctor or perhaps he's a combination of the Doctor's darker impulses mixed with a couple of his later incarnations - the script seems a bit inconsistent on that point. He wants to kill the Doctor to break his connection to him and also inherit his later incarnations - which doesn't really make much sense. The Master? Oh, he exposes the Valeyard in the hopes he and the Doctor will take each other out and he can gain control of the Matrix even though he seems to have a fair bit of control already, the Doctor would have died anyway had he kept quiet and then he could have finished off the Valeyard at his leisure. And Peri? Yeah, her death never actually happened although a lifetime married to Brian Blessed will probably lead to some shattered ear drums (and her poor stepdad probably assumes she's dead). Apart from all that, it's not very interesting. The Valeyard is at least a decent concept for a villain and the actor gives a good performance. The Master being the Doctor's saviour is also not a bad idea. Much like in The Deadly Assassin, the illusory world of the Matrix isn't very well utilised - some disembodied arms, spooky children singing, quicksand and endless bureaucratic Onslows is as exciting as it gets. I don't even know what the point of the Valeyard posing as the latter is, he doesn't really take any advantage from it bar tricking the Master and Sabalom Glitz. The latter is by far the best thing about this story, I find him endlessly entertaining and hope this isn't the last we see of him. Mel on the other hand is even more annoying here. Bonnie Langford's line delivery is just weird, I never found her the least bit convincing. It's a bit odd that she goes off with the Doctor at the end, considering she's already lived through the events of Terror of the Vervoids while he hasn't and I have zero confidence in the writers addressing this issue in future.
Series 23 ranking: 1. Terror of the Vervoids 2. The Mysterious Planet 3. Mindwarp 4. The Ultimate Foe
So, time to add Peri to the ranking. I didn't like her at first and I feel Series 23 did her no favours but I liked her a lot in Series 22. She reminded me of Teri Hatcher's Lois Lane both in looks and performance - a bit of a brat but warm-hearted and gritty deep down. I also liked that her interest in botany was kept throughout her tenure. It's a pity she didn't really get a proper send off. I don't think she's Top 10 material but she only just misses out.
1. Jo 2. Leela 3. Ian 4. Sarah-Jane 5. Barbara 6. Romana 7. Ben 8. K-9 9. Liz 10. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart 11. Peri 12. Vikki 13. Steven 14. Tegan 15. Victoria 16. Nyssa 17. Harry 18. Zoe 19. Turlough 20. Adric 21. Jamie 22. Polly 23. Susan 24. Dodo
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Post by CharlesX on Dec 5, 2023 12:30:18 GMT
Thank you very Kieran. I'd agree Trial Of A Time Lord episodes were middling to sub-middling and had some glaring inconsistencies. The whole thing feels a bit to me like a metaphor for Doctor Who series defending itself from cancellation, whether the writers lost nerve and confidence partially because of criticism about the show, some even from fans, I don't know. As a Whovian you may already know; Brian Blessed was shortlisted as a possible Doctor but was rejected partly because he suggested at the response stage he would do a very stereotyped Chinese Doctor in the "Ah Wok" vein. Nicola Bryant who plays Peri was so desperate to get the part she faked an American accent (and repeatedly skirted around being single) at interviews and conventions as well as her entire time in the role. She was not American even via relative. And producers repeatedly insisted Peri\Nicola wore skimpy clothes even in freezing weather, leading to her getting pneumonia and frostbite. So, probably more committed to her role than Teri Hatcher, don't know about talent.
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kieran
Baron
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Post by kieran on Dec 5, 2023 12:52:24 GMT
Thank you very Kieran. I'd agree Trial Of A Time Lord episodes were middling to sub-middling and had some glaring inconsistencies. The whole thing feels a bit to me like a metaphor for Doctor Who series defending itself from cancellation Ha, yes it does make more sense viewed that way. I wonder if it would have been better just to do the first three stories as normal without the courtroom stuff, shorten the baggy Mindwarp to three episodes then expand The Ultimate Foe to include the court scenes, lengthening it to 3 episodes. Eek, that sounds awful! Maybe Brian was joking. No way! I thought that was a genuine accent. Although that maybe explains the weird way she says 'DJ'. Her costumes were a bit ridiculous at times. There was a scene with the Doctor fishing and the camera was focused on Peri readjusting her bra in the background! Maybe that was part of the ploy to avoid cancellation?
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Post by a moderator on Dec 5, 2023 13:34:47 GMT
Many of the problems with The Ultimate Foe are due to behind-the-scenes issues, including the death of one scriptwriter and a major falling-out between producer and script editor (one consequence of which was that the people rushed in to provide a replacement episode 14 were not allowed to know anything about how it had originally been intended to go). Doesn't excuse the inconsistencies, but goes some way towards explaining them. It's a bit odd that she goes off with the Doctor at the end, considering she's already lived through the events of Terror of the Vervoids while he hasn't and I have zero confidence in the writers addressing this issue in future. The writers did resolve it, but only in the novelisation of Foe - the Doctor returns Mel to the coordinates from which she was brought to the courtroom, and she rejoins his future self. Your lack of comment on something suggests that you might not be aware of it. The public were made aware of it at the time, so it scarcely constitutes a spoiler, but I'll hide it just in case: This was the end of the Colin Baker era. BBC bosses insisted that he be replaced, and while he was given the option of one final story to lead up to a regeneration, he declined (partly because committing himself to it would be an obstacle to moving on to new roles, and partly because of the pretty disgraceful way he was being treated by the programme controllers).
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,470
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 5, 2023 15:15:58 GMT
Many of the problems with The Ultimate Foe are due to behind-the-scenes issues, including the death of one scriptwriter and a major falling-out between producer and script editor (one consequence of which was that the people rushed in to provide a replacement episode 14 were not allowed to know anything about how it had originally been intended to go). Doesn't excuse the inconsistencies, but goes some way towards explaining them. Ah, ok. In that case, perhaps it's amazing that it wasn't much worse! Well, I guess that's something. Ah, no. I was aware that McCoy comes in in Series 24 and expected this to be Baker's Doctor's last story but then when he didn't die, I assumed he must bow out mid-Series 24. That's a dreadful shame (even if most of the exits have been a bit underwhelming thus far, Davison being the exception). I guess I'd better update my Doctor ranking then. I enjoyed Colin Baker's performance though it felt a times a little bit shallow. He was quite similar to that more famous Baker, being energetic, quirky and often petulant but I feel Tom Baker just had more screen presence. I still preferred Colin to Davison's more dry approach to the character though. So Colin Baker finally bucks the downward trend: 1. William Hartnell 2. Patrick Troughton 3. Jon Pertwee 4. Tom Baker 5. Colin Baker 6. Peter Davison
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Post by scouserob on Dec 5, 2023 18:44:48 GMT
A poor season indeed and perhaps one of only two seasons of Doctor Who without a single episode that I'd class even as very good amongst its number. (Along with the 13th's second season.)
The framing device of the Trial of a Time Lord was interesting in concept if poorly executed.
I agree about Sabalom Glitz. A despicable character but the actor brings such charisma to the role that I just have to root for him.
I had very poor memories of Mel, but in Terror of the Vervoids she works surprisingly well with the 6th Doctor. (I do not feel that she works well at all with the 7th.)
I did enjoy Colin Bakers performance in this season, there was always a slight feeling that he could be committing these atrocities and breaking bad. (I also enjoyed his childish winding up of the Valeyard, calling him the scrapyard, backyard, etc. 😂)
Here are my rankings: 1. The Ultimate Foe (The Valeyard has always stuck in the memory since the first airing, will his Evil Doctor ever return.) 2. Terror of the Vervoids (I always remember this as being better than it actually is, I guess it left a big impression, with my mind filling in its own gaps in the action.) 3. The Mysterious Planet 4. Mindwarp
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Post by CharlesX on Dec 14, 2023 19:50:28 GMT
Hi all, I'm posting this my nutshell review of Evil Of The Daleks, Doctor Who Season 4 Serial 9 after Keiran did not review it when it was not easily available at the time. The missing episodes have been animated into an amazing show - I wonder why this has only been done for certain Who and not others such as The Dalek Master Plan and The Celestial Toymaker? Would it be because even the scripts are no longer accessible? Or copyright issues?
I am posting this in the form of a spoiler as it reveals big elements of the plot and some twists and surprises.
I liked the notion the Doctor was in a mystery instead of the constant aggression and unsubtle themes which characterizes many episodes from after the Pertwee era. There was a sense to begin with the Doctor was playing along for no reason, which neither made narrative sense nor was in keeping with the Doctor's personality. The Daleks shouldn't need either a Dalek factor or a Human factor because they are beings rather than magic entities, and the notion you could make them more Dalek-y is as ridiculous as making a human more human-y or a computer more computer-y. The Doctor destroying the entire Dalek plan because Daleks had not only kept both the original changed Daleks alive and the Human Factor and left the Dalek factor fully unguarded - yeah, to me that made as much sense as Doctor Who Dalek Invasion Of Earth film where stopping the Dalek bomb to the Earth is easy because a very key point in Earth's magnetism is a mile or so from the Doctor's whereabouts. I like the film as a kid, less so as an adult, but neither come across as classics. I thought several of the characters were well-done, Jamie and the Maid stole the scenes they were in. There was some stereotyping with the 'tough black guy' Kemel who eventually dies and Victoria, who seems charming but too demure. Unfortunately my understanding is Victoria barely develops beyond this stereotyped screaming woman to be rescued, which is the opposite of the current show which has moved in the direction of being too woke. I laughed at the end when the Doctor said it was "The final end" of the Daleks, they would be far more commercially cynical than to say anything like that these days! I did enjoy Evil Of The Daleks in spite of it being a touch inconsistent, which I think was more than me being pretentious and not getting its kids' audience. The animation was fine, by the way. 7 out of 10.
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Post by scouserob on Dec 14, 2023 20:47:25 GMT
I agree about Victoria, she never really grows beyond her Character in Evil of the Daleks unfortunately. I did enjoy The Evil of the Daleks, though not as much as The Power of the Daleks.
The Celestial Toymaker will be the next missing story to be animated. 😀 The animation style has changed from the previous releases. It looks like it may take some getting used to:
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