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Post by a moderator on Mar 31, 2014 23:57:59 GMT
There's been a bit of a tangent in the DotD thread regarding how quickly you can guarantee failure in each FF book. As hynreck surmised, I have given some though to the issue, so here's a list of what I know. Others are free to join in with suggestions for the books on which I'm not so sure, alternatives, corrections or whatever. I'm ignoring bad endings that depend on the fall of the dice, as there's no guarantee of getting the roll(s) required to fail. And in situations where a roll can influence how many sections you go through, I'm assuming that what was rolled is what gives the fastest outcome. TWOFM - 5 sections Choose not to go through the second door to the west, and you wind up missing a vital key. TCOC - 5 sections Don't approach the groups in the courtyard, and you miss out on an essential item. TFOD - 3 sections Attack Yaztromo and get frogged. ST - a long time Off the top of my head, not putting up any resistance on Culematter is probably the fastest way to ensure your doom, but it'll still take a while to get there. COT - a very long time I'm pretty sure there's no way of guaranteeing failure more quickly than choosing not to board the pirate ship, so you don't get the Black Pearls. Which is sort of an ironic way of failing, since you turn out not to need them anyway. DD - 6 sections Ring the bell and scream for assistance, and one of our trained Hobgoblins will be along to slay you shortly. IOTLK - 4 sections Flee the Giant Crab, and you drown in quicksand. Mungo still pre-deceases you. Just. ScSw - 11 sections Kill Grimslade and try to loot his tower.Letting him summon the Demon only takes 8 sections, but there's a slim chance of your winning the fight. COTSW - quite a while I think the quickest way to ensure defeat is not to go into the kitchen - fighting the Mountain Elf to the death takes up so many sections that it actually takes longer to contrive to go the wrong way at the preceding junction. HOH - some time Here there's a difference between the quickest way of dying and the quickest way of ensuring your death. Sniffing the wrong vial in the Azazel room will kill you, but you can accumulate enough FEAR to have no chance of making it to the end before you reach that room. TODeath - 9 sections Go across open ground, then approach the Orcs or the Dark Elves - either way, you're doomed. SA - 9 sections That's how long it takes to deactivate the ship's reactor shielding and ensure that it blows up. The countdown to destruction is drawn-out enough that you might be able to press the wrong button on the booby-trapped floor safe and blow yourself up in less time than it takes the Vandervecken to go boom, but it takes less time to turn off the shields than to reach the safe. FF - 4 sections Joe's Garage may be a front for a couple of crooks, but at least it provides quick service. TOT - 9 sections Or 12, depending on whether or not you count every time you have to turn back to section 34. Either way, take the bridge and you're sure to miss one Dragon artefact. TROK - 13 sections I think the fastest sure-fire way of getting yourself killed is to try and pay a house call on 'Blaster' Babbet, and ignore your ambushers' instructions. SOB - 4 sections Pick the wrong door on Enraki. It's possible that making the wrong decision in section 1 ensures not getting enough gold to win, but there are so many variables at play, being impaled with spikes is most likely the safest way of meeting a premature end. AWF - 4 sections I'm including the clue-seeking sections here. Pick Super Strength, go straight to work, and you'll miss a vital clue. RP - 11 sections Trying to evade your escort can get you killed faster, but random factors may avert your doom. To be certain, let Grus betray you. DOTD - 2 sections Resurfacing will doom you - the clue is in the title. Short of losing the fight in section 1 of Island of the Undead or Spellbreaker, you cannot die faster. SOTS - 8 sections Dying in a cell in Tsietsin's castle appears to be the fastest death without random elements. TOC - a while Attacking your guard has a strong probability of ensuring your death, and if that doesn't work, picking the wrong weapon against the Bonecrusher gives slim odds of survival. But for an absolute certainty of failure, your earliest definite opportunity doesn't come until you're inside the refurbished Deathtrap Dungeon and can start ignoring doors. RC - 9 sections Use the lift in the tunnels under the City of Industry, press the wrong button, and plummet down the shaft. MOM - 3 sections Take a raft across Lake Nekros and your adventure is over. If it weren't for the lack of decisions in section 1, this would be as speedy a demise as the one in Demons. COH - 14 sections All the random stuff early on complicates matters. I think taking the wrong exit as soon as you can make your own choices means missing something essential. Getting to that decision by the most direct route (or failing before you get that far) is entirely at the whim of the dice. BNC - 3 sections Refuse assistance and get sacrificed. Another one-decision fatality. COTS - 2 sections Go the wrong way from section 1, and you cannot win. Mind you, it'll be a while before your inevitable doom occurs, whereas on the true path you have a 1 in 3 chance of being dead in 4 sections. Irony, thy name is Livingstone. StSt - 15 sections You can get abandoned in the wilderness by Loptsi's gang in slightly less time than it takes to blow your cover and get arrested in Madrid. POF - 4 sections I think going the wrong way when you set off can ensure your missing an essential item. MR - 2 sections A deferred defeat, and a rubbish one, but not starting by exploring the Noose means failure on account of not getting a vague hint about where to find clues, even if you managed to find those clues without the hint. COM - 11 sections Pick the wrong stepping stone and get tipped into the lava moat. I'll do the rest later, assuming others haven't filled in the gaps for me.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Apr 1, 2014 10:55:09 GMT
Regarding Phantoms of Fear, even though you may miss an important item by going the wrong way at the start, you can still win by beating Ishtra in dream combat so it is not a guaranteed failure. I think the quickest way to fail is to get captured by the Riddling Reaver's minions and fail to answer their riddle
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Apr 1, 2014 11:27:50 GMT
Nice profile picture.Which movie or cartoon you got it from?
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Post by a moderator on Apr 1, 2014 13:13:30 GMT
Re: PhantomsYes, I suppose the 'fail for lack of items' ending only really becomes an inevitability when you choose the world in which you confront Ishtra.The Pixies' rhyme is an odd set-up, as there's no penalty for a wrong guess, so there's nothing to prevent you from trying every section in turn until you get the right one. If not turning to a section at all is a viable means of failure, that technically means that you can fail every book in one section by just refusing to pick an option.If being in the net is not a viable failure, I imagine something involving that green pendant would be the quickest route to certain death. Moving on to books 31-40: BW - a lot Attempting to break out by force, and refusing to steal a riding lizard whenever the opportunity presents itself will eventually lead to death by attrition. Depending on your Stamina, it may well be quicker to sneak out, and either evade the copse or charge at your pursuers after Lecarte shoots your riding lizard. SOTA - 4 sections Insist on staying to defend Kallamehr, and you will meet an unspecified bad end when the city falls. SL - 3 sections Ignoring space fungus is a bad idea even in a reality as illogical as this one. SOS - a while At a guess, I'd say that going towards the singing is the quickest route to certain death, but the variety of options in this book means I could have missed something. DOD - quite some time So many viable routes, I don't have a clue of the fastest way to ensure your doom. AOD - 2 sections Like Crypt, only without the 1 in 3 chance of dying horribly at the start of the true path. Maybe Ian was feeling merciful. POE - 8 sections Make Gartax angry enough, and his followers will slaughter you. VOTV - plenty I don't think you can guarantee death faster than by attacking Doktor Adenauer. FOF - loads As with Daggers, it's hard to tell. There's an opportunity to lethally provoke the Giant Octopod while rowing to the harbour, which may well be the earliest option. DON - 15 sections As long as you didn't pick HEAL, a visit to Astonbury will end your adventure reasonably quickly.
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kieran
Baron
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 1, 2014 13:47:20 GMT
Nice profile picture.Which movie or cartoon you got it from? It's from Disney's Robin Hood.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Apr 1, 2014 19:37:49 GMT
This is quite impressive. What are you counting as doom here, btw? Does your character have to ultimately die or just fail to reach 400 (or other 'congratulations' paragraph)? In Scorpion Swamp... ...you can sell Poomchukker your brass ring in 7 paras, which is arguably a sensible move but presumably no one reaches that para and says "Woohoo! I win!"
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Post by a moderator on Apr 1, 2014 23:22:02 GMT
I'm counting any failure to reach the (or an) optimal ending as 'doom'. Good catch on Scorpion Swamp there - I'd completely forgotten about that ending.
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Post by a moderator on Apr 3, 2014 1:19:03 GMT
41-50... MOC - 4 sections Attacking the Second Mate when he picks on you means being made an example of to the other slaves. BVP - 4 sections Some mornings you can't afford to go back to bed for 'just a few more minutes'. TKOTLL - 10 sections Enter the Down among the Dead Men inn, then choose not to spend the night there, and you'll find out the reason for the grafitti. LOTSW - 8 sections Let Woad arrest you, and don't try to escape from prison. SS - lots The random element of most travel by Aleph complicates matters. Going straight from the Library to the Ziggurat World and getting yourself captured by the Black Shadows is probably the fastest path to failure that doesn't depend on the dice. TODest - quite a while I don't think there's a faster certain death than clambering into the Sphere's furnace. TCT - 2 sections Even if the Giant Mudworm doesn't kill you, you'll get the wrong codeword and eventually fail. M - 7 sections Pursue Bennet's assassin, turn your attention to the carriage, and once you're inside, provided you didn't pick Sleight of Hand, you're done for. SOSar - 6 sections Is attacking a trader ever a good idea? Do it here, and if you survive the poison you'll still miss out on vital stuff in the long run. RTFM - 4 sections Head straight for Firetop Mountain and you'll be short of more than one essential item.
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kieran
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 3, 2014 10:57:05 GMT
Re Siege of Sardath, I don't have the book to hand but I would have thought that letting "Morn Preeler" escape is a faster way to doom yourself
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Apr 3, 2014 12:06:52 GMT
But after checking the book,I found that you have to lose many attack rounds and other stuff related to Skill before you can successfully veer off the path to success.
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kieran
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 3, 2014 13:06:17 GMT
Yes, there is a lot of dice rolling there and depending on how the dice go you may never get the option to let him escape. Although IIRC it's more likely than not you will. Still, if we are ignoring any random element, no matter how likely its occurence, then I guess letting him go shouldn't count.
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Post by a moderator on Apr 3, 2014 14:29:49 GMT
Random elements are too, well, random. Improbable outcomes do still occur from time to time (I'd say 'more frequently than you'd expect', but that could just be the confirmation bias talking), so it's better to focus on certainties.
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Post by nathanh on Apr 3, 2014 15:55:09 GMT
For City of Thieves, depending on rule interpretation: If you go down Clock Street, deliberately have all your gold stolen, ignore all buildings and encounters, ignore candle street, this seems to lead to a situation where you cannot have the required 10 gold for the silver arrow. In this situation, the silversmith will give you the silver arrow for your remaining food, but the book does not state what happens if you have no food left. We can arrange this situation by eating a meal at the first ten references. Presumably, the silversmith would not give you the silver arrow for 0 provisions, and so there is no way to acquire it. Thus you are doomed the moment you reject Candle Street, which is a few references before the pirate ship. However, a strict reading of the book leads to the silversmith giving you the arrow for 0 provisions, so whether this counts is a matter of opinion. This is also a rather artificial method because it is essentially impossible to achieve without deliberately trying to break the game.
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Post by a moderator on Apr 3, 2014 16:53:23 GMT
Re: City of ThievesIf you're going for a 'contrive a situation not allowed for by the book' set-up like that, you might as well just lose all your money and then talk to the one-legged man on Singing Bridge. The book says you give him money, you have no money to give, therefore you can't get to the end of the paragraph. Maybe the man is so incensed at your refusal to pay, he hits you with his club and knocks you into the river, where the pollution kills you.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 4, 2014 12:33:00 GMT
Re City of Thieves Can't you choose to attack the silversmith? And killing him means you can't get the arrow?
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Apr 4, 2014 14:14:30 GMT
The silversmith appears after the pirate ship.And it would also be quicker to just walk past the silver smith's shop.
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Post by a moderator on Apr 4, 2014 14:18:15 GMT
Re: CityYou can attack him (or even just refuse to enter the shop), but that's not relevant here. The pirate ship precedes the Silversmith's shop, so not boarding that guarantees failure first.
What nathanh was arguing is that it's possible to deprive yourself of everything that could be used to buy the arrow even before you get as far as the ship, so that could count as making defeat inevitable even faster. If the book allowed for the possibility of having neither food nor money by the time you reach the shop, that would technically be the quickest route. As it doesn't, the matter remains open to debate.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Apr 4, 2014 14:37:59 GMT
Well I can tell you for certain about 65)BoTZ:3 references SPOILER(I can't make the real spoiler on my phone) Make a risky move and you will be helpless against the zombies.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 4, 2014 14:45:06 GMT
Ah I see. Must pay more attention to what people are actually arguing!
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Post by a moderator on Apr 9, 2014 21:48:07 GMT
The rest of the Puffin range: IOTU - at most 5 sections It might be possible to miss something vital faster than that, but heading for the lighthouse, then investigating the wreck and trying to climb to the crow's nest must surely be the fastest immediate fatality. ND - lots Random factors and the hub set-up make it hard to be certain what's the quickest route to certain doom. It might be heading NW from the Conclave, visiting Carnex and sampling the biscuit in the brewery, but I can't be certain. S - 5 sections I'm pretty sure you won't have enough money for everything you need if you travel to Hallow's Well alone. If I'm wrong about that, making no offering at the shrine (which only takes one extra section) ensures that you have no chance of getting the vital Heal-All. LOZ - tons As with Daggers of Darkness, I don't have a clue how long it takes to make death a certainty. D - 2 sections Attempt the quest without acquiring the letter from Fang-Zen, and you doom the Princess. KOD - possibly at character creation Am I right in thinking that if you don't use Banish Spirit on the Assassin's Dagger, you eventually get it in the back? If so, not selecting it means you're doomed from the outset. M - 2 sections Stay put when the tremors begin, and the best ending is no longer open to you. ROTV - 10 sections (11 if you include the Background, as that's where the first choice comes) Conduct your investigations clumsily enough, and you get poisoned by Endrell. COTM - 4 sections If you don't go to the market, you'll have nothing to trade for the scroll you need to be able to translate the directions to the tomb.
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Post by nathanh on Apr 10, 2014 8:24:35 GMT
For Night Dragon, I'm pretty sure that you're right about Carnex being the place to go to die soonest. The fastest way to die in Carnex seems to be to go directly to the Towers and try to fight your way in, this kills you immediately.
A sillier "deliberate" way to die a bit faster is to spend all of your luck in fights on the way to Carnex, and then try to attack the guards at the gate, which gives you a Test of Luck or DEATH.
An even sillier way to suicide is to eat all your provisions at the beginning, get into a loop in Rentarn looking for Endimion and let yourself starve to death. Even with Stamina 24 I think this leads to fewer references than getting to Carnex. Obviously this is a ridiculous "answer".
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Post by a moderator on Apr 10, 2014 18:36:03 GMT
For Night Dragon, I'm pretty sure that you're right about Carnex being the place to go to die soonest. The fastest way to die in Carnex seems to be to go directly to the Towers and try to fight your way in, this kills you immediately.
A sillier "deliberate" way to die a bit faster is to spend all of your luck in fights on the way to Carnex, and then try to attack the guards at the gate, which gives you a Test of Luck or DEATH.
An even sillier way to suicide is to eat all your provisions at the beginning, get into a loop in Rentarn looking for Endimion and let yourself starve to death. Even with Stamina 24 I think this leads to fewer references than getting to Carnex. Obviously this is a ridiculous "answer". The Tower attack works. The others are a stretch. As regards the 'sillier "deliberate" way', that approach could also be used to accelerate your demise in at least one other book. In Caverns depleting your Luck against the Snow Wolves/Mammoth and Yeti would mean dying in the avalanche. And I think that in Stealer wasting your Luck could ensure death by Stone Shapeshifter faster than the listed suggestion. Still, that approach is a bit ridiculous. Steve Jackson's Sorcery! (treating each book separately, so help from earlier volumes is not taken into account). TSH - 13 sections I think getting shot with a blowpipe by a Head Hunter is the quickest way. KCOT - 7 sections Going the wrong way once you're out of the cell means you miss a Spell Line. If that's not a satisfactory means of failing, it only takes 12 sections to meet a grisly end at the hands and jaws of the Mantis Man. TSS - 14 sections Offend the Snake Charmer, then listen to his music. TCOK - 4 sections Sleeping in the second cave without checking for occupants can be bad for your health.
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kieran
Baron
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Post by kieran on Apr 11, 2014 12:10:38 GMT
Regarding Island of the Undead, I think if you go anywhere other than the lighthouse or along the coast at your first choice you cannot win
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Post by nathanh on Apr 12, 2014 10:11:31 GMT
I don't have a perfect knowledge of IotU, and have yet to finish it, so I might be wrong: I think the initial Moorland and Hillock choices are OK and let you get back to the necessary path. I think going into the woodland might be terminal though, because don't you need to go into the barrow to win the book? And you need a magic sword to get to the end of the barrow which you can't have if you go straight there.
I have the impression that there are some bugs and weird loops possible in the early sections of IotU anyway---some sections don't have the "explore somewhere you haven't been before" clause, I think there is one section that forces you to go somewhere you've potentially already been, and there's probably an order you can do everything that leaves you with nowhere "legal" to explore.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Apr 13, 2014 20:49:55 GMT
So I think so far for purely statless and unambiguous doomings we have something like this: Knights of Doom | 0 | Demons of the Deep | 2 | Crypt of the Sorcerer | 2 | Midnight Rogue | 2 | Armies of Death | 2 | The Crimson Tide | 2 | Deathmoor | 2 | Magehunter | 2 | The Demon Spider | 2 | Mudworm Swamp | 2 | The Forest of Doom | 3 | Masks of Mayhem | 3 | Beneath Nightmare Castle | 3 | Sky Lord | 3 | Blood of the Zombies | 3 | Island of the Lizard King | 4 | Freeway Fighter | 4 | Seas of Blood | 4 | Appointment with F.E.A.R. | 4 | Phantoms of Fear | 4 | Slaves of the Abyss | 4 | Master of Chaos | 4 | Black Vein Prophecy | 4 | Return to Firetop Mountain | 4 | Curse of the Mummy | 4 | The Crown of Kings | 4 | Darkmoon's Curse | 4 | The Warlock of Firetop Mountain | 5 | The Citadel of Chaos | 5 | Island of the Undead | 5 | Spellbreaker | 5 | Bloodbones | 5 | Deathtrap Dungeon | 6 | Siege of Sardath | 6 | Scorpion Swamp | 7 | Moonrunner | 7 | Kharé - Cityport of Traps | 7 | Sword of the Samurai | 8 | Portal of Evil | 8 | Legend of the Shadow Warriors | 8 | Ghost Road | 8 | Clash of the Princes (Wk) | 8 | Talisman of Death | 9 | Space Assassin | 9 | Temple of Terror | 9 | Robot Commando | 9 | Clash of the Princes (Wr) | 9 | The Keep of the Lich Lord | 10 | Revenge of the Vampire | 10 | Rebel Planet | 11 | Chasms of Malice | 11 | The Rings of Kether | 13 | The Shamutanti Hills | 13 | Creature of Havoc | 14 | The Seven Serpents | 14 | Star Strider | 15 | Dead of Night | 15 | Eye of the Dragon | 15 | Starship Traveller | Long time | Caverns of the Snow Witch | Long time | House of Hell | Long time | Trial of Champions | Long time | Battleblade Warrior | Long time | Stealer of Souls | Long time | Daggers of Darkness | Long time | Spectral Stalkers | Long time | Tower of Destruction | Long time | Night Dragon | Long time | Howl of the Werewolf | Long time | Stormslayer | Long time | Night of the Necromancer | Long time | City of Thieves | Very long time | Vault of the Vampire | Very long time | Fangs of Fury | Very long time | Legend of Zagor | Very long time |
Is that right? I'll correct/improve as more info is offered. (Though it's harder to copy across a table from OpenOffice than I was expecting.) The crucial question not yet covered is: If instructions to get you through as easily as possible are walkthroughs, what are instructions to ensure your downfall in the shortest time to be called? Perhaps we could reserve walkdoom for the idea as Greenspine conceived of it, and use lemmingthrough for the versions NathanH is proposing - that is: anything where you are adjusting your adventure sheet in ways not instructed by the text. Lemmingthroughs might be further split according to which stat etc you have to put pressure on. Instructions which require wasting luck might be jinxthroughs (or hexthroughs, jinxdooms) whilst instructions relying on a gluttonous scoffing of provisions could be waddledooms (or piedooms, bellythroughs, rollthroughs, etc). 1st edit: Wizard series 1 + BotZ 2nd edit: Wizard series 2 + oddballs
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Post by a moderator on Apr 13, 2014 22:38:51 GMT
The first lot of Wizard books: EOTD - 15 sections at most I'm not sure what items are essential, so it may be possible to miss something vital more quickly, but rafting to your death is the fastest certain death. B - 5 sections Start seeking the pirates' base without first going to the market, and you'll have no way of escaping the deathtrap you wind up in when you find the base. HOTW - a lot I don't think there's a faster way than letting Meg summon the Headless Highwayman, then running away when defeating him in combat doesn't work.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Apr 14, 2014 6:30:45 GMT
So I think so far for purely statless and unambiguous doomings we have something like this: Knights of Doom | 0 | Demons of the Deep | 2 | Crypt of the Sorcerer | 2 | Midnight Rogue | 2 | Armies of Death | 2 | The Crimson Tide | 2 | Deathmoor | 2 | Magehunter | 2 | The Forest of Doom | 3 | Masks of Mayhem | 3 | Beneath Nightmare Castle | 3 | Sky Lord | 3 | Island of the Lizard King | 4 | Freeway Fighter | 4 | Seas of Blood | 4 | Appointment with F.E.A.R. | 4 | Phantoms of Fear | 4 | Slaves of the Abyss | 4 | Master of Chaos | 4 | Black Vein Prophecy | 4 | Return to Firetop Mountain | 4 | Curse of the Mummy | 4 | The Crown of Kings | 4 | The Warlock of Firetop Mountain | 5 | The Citadel of Chaos | 5 | Island of the Undead | 5 | Spellbreaker | 5 | Deathtrap Dungeon | 6 | Siege of Sardath | 6 | Scorpion Swamp | 7 | Moonrunner | 7 | Kharé - Cityport of Traps | 7 | Sword of the Samurai | 8 | Portal of Evil | 8 | Legend of the Shadow Warriors | 8 | Talisman of Death | 9 | Space Assassin | 9 | Temple of Terror | 9 | Robot Commando | 9 | The Keep of the Lich Lord | 10 | Revenge of the Vampire | 10 | Rebel Planet | 11 | Chasms of Malice | 11 | The Rings of Kether | 13 | The Shamutanti Hills | 13 | Creature of Havoc | 14 | The Seven Serpents | 14 | Star Strider | 15 | Dead of Night | 15 | Starship Traveller | Long time | Caverns of the Snow Witch | Long time | House of Hell | Long time | Trial of Champions | Long time | Battleblade Warrior | Long time | Stealer of Souls | Long time | Daggers of Darkness | Long time | Spectral Stalkers | Long time | Tower of Destruction | Long time | Night Dragon | Long time | City of Thieves | Very long time | Vault of the Vampire | Very long time | Fangs of Fury | Very long time | Legend of Zagor | Very long time | Bloodbones |
| Eye of the Dragon |
| Howl of the Werewolf |
| Stormslayer |
| Night of the Necromancer |
| Blood of the Zombies |
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Is that right? I'll correct/improve as more info is offered. (Though it's harder to copy across a table from OpenOffice than I was expecting.) The crucial question not yet covered is: If instructions to get you through as easily as possible are walkthroughs, what are instructions to ensure your downfall in the shortest time to be called? Walkdooms? Endthrough? Walkends? Lemmingthroughs? Perhaps we could reserve walkdoom for the idea as Greenspine conceived of it, and use lemmingthrough for the versions NathanH is proposing - that is: anything where you are adjusting your adventure sheet in ways not instructed by the text. Lemmingthroughs might be further split according to which stat etc you have to put pressure on. Instructions which require wasting luck might be jinxthroughs (or hexthroughs, jinxdooms) whilst instructions relying on a gluttonous scoffing of provisions could be waddledooms (or piedooms, bellythroughs, rollthroughs, etc). I posted about BotZ a few posts back.3 references ensure your doom.
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kieran
Baron
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Post by kieran on Apr 14, 2014 9:11:08 GMT
The first lot of Wizard books: EOTD - 15 sections at most I'm not sure what items are essential, so it may be possible to miss something vital more quickly, but rafting to your death is the fastest certain death
I think that's right. If I recall correctly, the first absolutely essential item is the Hole in the wall spell which is quite far in.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Apr 14, 2014 11:30:39 GMT
So I think so far for purely statless and unambiguous doomings we have something like this: Knights of Doom | 0 | Demons of the Deep | 2 | Crypt of the Sorcerer | 2 | Midnight Rogue | 2 | Armies of Death | 2 | The Crimson Tide | 2 | Deathmoor | 2 | Magehunter | 2 | The Forest of Doom | 3 | Masks of Mayhem | 3 | Beneath Nightmare Castle | 3 | Sky Lord | 3 | Island of the Lizard King | 4 | Freeway Fighter | 4 | Seas of Blood | 4 | Appointment with F.E.A.R. | 4 | Phantoms of Fear | 4 | Slaves of the Abyss | 4 | Master of Chaos | 4 | Black Vein Prophecy | 4 | Return to Firetop Mountain | 4 | Curse of the Mummy | 4 | The Crown of Kings | 4 | The Warlock of Firetop Mountain | 5 | The Citadel of Chaos | 5 | Island of the Undead | 5 | Spellbreaker | 5 | Deathtrap Dungeon | 6 | Siege of Sardath | 6 | Scorpion Swamp | 7 | Moonrunner | 7 | Kharé - Cityport of Traps | 7 | Sword of the Samurai | 8 | Portal of Evil | 8 | Legend of the Shadow Warriors | 8 | Talisman of Death | 9 | Space Assassin | 9 | Temple of Terror | 9 | Robot Commando | 9 | The Keep of the Lich Lord | 10 | Revenge of the Vampire | 10 | Rebel Planet | 11 | Chasms of Malice | 11 | The Rings of Kether | 13 | The Shamutanti Hills | 13 | Creature of Havoc | 14 | The Seven Serpents | 14 | Star Strider | 15 | Dead of Night | 15 | Starship Traveller | Long time | Caverns of the Snow Witch | Long time | House of Hell | Long time | Trial of Champions | Long time | Battleblade Warrior | Long time | Stealer of Souls | Long time | Daggers of Darkness | Long time | Spectral Stalkers | Long time | Tower of Destruction | Long time | Night Dragon | Long time | City of Thieves | Very long time | Vault of the Vampire | Very long time | Fangs of Fury | Very long time | Legend of Zagor | Very long time | Bloodbones |
| Eye of the Dragon |
| Howl of the Werewolf |
| Stormslayer |
| Night of the Necromancer |
| Blood of the Zombies |
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Is that right? I'll correct/improve as more info is offered. (Though it's harder to copy across a table from OpenOffice than I was expecting.) The crucial question not yet covered is: If instructions to get you through as easily as possible are walkthroughs, what are instructions to ensure your downfall in the shortest time to be called? Walkdooms? Endthrough? Walkends? Lemmingthroughs? Perhaps we could reserve walkdoom for the idea as Greenspine conceived of it, and use lemmingthrough for the versions NathanH is proposing - that is: anything where you are adjusting your adventure sheet in ways not instructed by the text. Lemmingthroughs might be further split according to which stat etc you have to put pressure on. Instructions which require wasting luck might be jinxthroughs (or hexthroughs, jinxdooms) whilst instructions relying on a gluttonous scoffing of provisions could be waddledooms (or piedooms, bellythroughs, rollthroughs, etc). I posted about BotZ a few posts back.3 references ensure your doom. Oh yes, sorry. I don't own BotZ and the method for self-dooming sounded so basic I wondered whether it was a joking criticism of the book! Added now.
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Post by a moderator on Apr 14, 2014 11:41:39 GMT
Mustn't forget Clash of the Princes. Warrior - 9 sections Getting your head ripped off while exploring a giant anthill - the first of many arbitrary endings. Warlock - 8 sections Pick the wrong spell, and you'll never get out of the Wood Sprite's tree. Or The Adventures of GoldhawkDC - 4 sections Go the wrong way and miss out on essential items. TDS - 2 sections Leave Two-Heads alone and you don't get the start of a chain of crucial items. MS - 2 sections Not hiring the Galomper indirectly leads to contracting a lethal plague. GR - 8 sections There's more than one item that can incapacitate Darkmoon at the end, so you'll need to avoid getting both of them to ensure failure. As for Wizard series 2, deadshadowrunner is right about BOTZ. The other two take a while owing to a scarcity of straightforwardly suicidal options.
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