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Post by petch on Dec 26, 2020 11:12:00 GMT
Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas!
Moving into the final day of voting, things remain extremely close. So much so, at one point all 3 groups were tied in a dead heat. I'm slightly relieved this is no longer the case (I'd hate to think my casting vote would have to decide the winners for all 3...I'm not that much of a narcissistic prick), however just a single vote separates the contenders in all groups as things stand. If any potential voters are holding off until the last minute, rest assured your votes still look set to have a major bearing on the final results!
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Post by petch on Dec 27, 2020 10:37:13 GMT
Ok, time for some results!
Kicking things off with the final standings for Group 1:
1st - DEATHMOOR by ROBIN WATERFIELD (4 votes) 2nd - SPACE ASSASSIN by ANDREW CHAPMAN (3 votes) 3rd - FREEWAY FIGHTER by IAN LIVINGSTONE (2 votes)
In terms of voting patterns, this group received fewer votes overall than Groups 2 or 3, as not everyone who took part submitted a vote for every group. Sadly (for me at least) my own personal favourite title in this group Freeway Fighter was never in the running, as by the time it received its 2 votes the other 2 titles had already established a lead. It was a close-run thing between Deathmoor and Space Assassin throughout, with the lead changing hands several times but with one title never being ahead by more than a single vote. My casting vote was not needed in this (or any other) group, as the final vote that was submitted clinched the win for the Waterfield title.
And the results from Groups 2 and 3 will be revealed...a bit later on!
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Post by petch on Dec 27, 2020 12:08:14 GMT
Group 2 results:
1st - SCORPION SWAMP by STEVE JACKSON (US) (6 votes) 2nd - TEMPLE OF TERROR by IAN LIVINGSTONE (5 votes)
It initially looked as if Scorpion Swamp would run away with this one, with the first 4 votes received all being for the US SJ title. However a flurry of votes for ToT then eventually tied things up at 5 votes apiece, and once again it came down to the final vote received to settle matters, this time in favour of the Jackson title.
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Post by vastariner on Dec 27, 2020 13:01:28 GMT
The novelties of the Swamp, with 3 different missions, for me just edged it over the bog-standard exploration of Terror.
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Post by petch on Dec 27, 2020 16:00:11 GMT
And the final set of results for Group 3:
1st - LEGEND OF THE SHADOW WARRIORS by STEPHEN HAND (6 votes) 2nd - MOONRUNNER by STEPHEN HAND (5 votes)
Can't pretend I'm not a teensy bit disappointed with the result of this one...I adore Moonrunner, and it places 2nd on my own personal rankings list (behind only Creature of Havoc), so had it won this vote it would have created a nice symmetry with my own list! Can't be too disappointed though, they're both magnificent titles thoroughly deserving of their top 3 status.
And there we have it. Now the full rankings list has been finalised, just for the sake of convenience & completeness I'll whack the whole list on a single post.
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Post by petch on Dec 27, 2020 16:01:04 GMT
1. SLAVES OF THE ABYSS by PAUL MASON & STEVEN WILLIAMS
2. LEGEND OF THE SHADOW WARRIORS by STEPHEN HAND
3. MOONRUNNER by STEPHEN HAND
4. HOWL OF THE WEREWOLF by JONATHAN GREEN
5. SIEGE OF SARDATH by KEITH P PHILLIPS
6. HOUSE OF HELL by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
7. TALISMAN OF DEATH by MARK SMITH & JAMIE THOMSON
8. DEATHTRAP DUNGEON by IAN LIVINGSTONE
9. VAULT OF THE VAMPIRE by KEITH MARTIN
10. CREATURE OF HAVOC by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
11. NIGHT OF THE NECROMANCER by JONATHAN GREEN
12. DEAD OF NIGHT by STEPHEN HAND & JIM BAMBRA
13. CITY OF THIEVES by IAN LIVINGSTONE
14. SORCERY!: KHARE - CITYPORT OF TRAPS by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
15. SORCERY!: THE CROWN OF KINGS by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
16. PORTAL OF EVIL by PETER DARVILL-EVANS
17. THE CITADEL OF CHAOS by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
18. SWORD OF THE SAMURAI by MARK SMITH & JAMIE THOMSON
19. SPECTRAL STALKERS by PETER DARVILL-EVANS
20. STORMSLAYER by JONATHAN GREEN
21. BLACK VEIN PROPHECY by PAUL MASON & STEVEN WILLIAMS
22. BENEATH NIGHTMARE CASTLE by PETER DARVILL-EVANS
23. PHANTOMS OF FEAR by ROBIN WATERFIELD
24. DEMONS OF THE DEEP by STEVE JACKSON (US)
25. SORCERY!: THE SHAMUTANTI HILLS by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
26. APPOINTMENT WITH F.E.A.R by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
27. SORCERY!: THE SEVEN SERPENTS by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
28. THE RIDDLING REAVER by PAUL MASON & STEVEN WILLIAMS
29. REBEL PLANET by ROBIN WATERFIELD
30. MAGEHUNTER by PAUL MASON
31. THE CRIMSON TIDE by PAUL MASON
32. MASKS OF MAYHEM by ROBIN WATERFIELD
33. MASTER OF CHAOS by KEITH MARTIN
34. NIGHT DRAGON by KEITH MARTIN
35. SCORPION SWAMP by STEVE JACKSON (US)
36. TEMPLE OF TERROR by IAN LIVINGSTONE
37. BLOODBONES by JONATHAN GREEN
38. ISLAND OF THE LIZARD KING by IAN LIVINGSTONE
39. TRIAL OF CHAMPIONS by IAN LIVINGSTONE
40. TOWER OF DESTRUCTION by KEITH MARTIN
41. ISLAND OF THE UNDEAD by KEITH MARTIN
42. CAVERNS OF THE SNOW WITCH by IAN LIVINGSTONE
43. THE WARLOCK OF FIRETOP MOUNTAIN by STEVE JACKSON (UK) & IAN LIVINGSTONE
44. STEALER OF SOULS by KEITH MARTIN
45. MIDNIGHT ROGUE by GRAEME DAVIS
46. SPELLBREAKER by JONATHAN GREEN
47. KNIGHTS OF DOOM by JONATHAN GREEN
48. ROBOT COMMANDO by STEVE JACKSON (US)
49. SEAS OF BLOOD by ANDREW CHAPMAN
50. KEEP OF THE LICH-LORD by DAVE MORRIS & JAMIE THOMSON
51. THE FOREST OF DOOM by IAN LIVINGSTONE
52. RETURN TO FIRETOP MOUNTAIN by IAN LIVINGSTONE
53. THE RINGS OF KETHER by ANDREW CHAPMAN
54. DAGGERS OF DARKNESS by LUKE SHARP
55. CURSE OF THE MUMMY by JONATHAN GREEN
56. REVENGE OF THE VAMPIRE by KEITH MARTIN
57. DEATHMOOR by ROBIN WATERFIELD
58. SPACE ASSASSIN by ANDREW CHAPMAN
59. FREEWAY FIGHTER by IAN LIVINGSTONE
60. FIGHTING FANTASY: THE INTRODUCTORY ROLE-PLAYING GAME by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
61. CRYSTAL OF STORMS by RHIANNA PRATCHETT
62. BATTLEBLADE WARRIOR by MARC GASCOIGNE
63. CLASH OF THE PRINCES: THE WARLOCK'S WAY by ANDREW CHAPMAN & MARTIN ALLEN
64. CRYPT OF THE SORCEROR by IAN LIVINGSTONE
65. LEGEND OF ZAGOR by KEITH MARTIN
66. CLASH OF THE PRINCES: THE WARRIOR'S WAY by ANDREW CHAPMAN & MARTIN ALLEN
67. FANGS OF FURY by LUKE SHARP
68. STAR STRIDER by LUKE SHARP
69. ASSASSINS OF ALLANSIA by IAN LIVINGSTONE
70. ARMIES OF DEATH by IAN LIVINGSTONE
71. STARSHIP TRAVELLER by STEVE JACKSON (UK)
72. CHASMS OF MALICE by LUKE SHARP
73. THE PORT OF PERIL by IAN LIVINGSTONE
74. EYE OF THE DRAGON by IAN LIVINGSTONE
75. SKY LORD by MARTIN ALLEN
76. THE GATES OF DEATH by CHARLIE HIGSON
77. BLOOD OF THE ZOMBIES by IAN LIVINGSTONE
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Post by tyrion on Dec 27, 2020 22:34:50 GMT
Thanks for doing the full list. I went for shadow warriors as I feel it works better as a game book. With moonrunner, while it is exceptionally well designed and full of atmosphere, I think it works better when just reading it. This way, you can visit all the wonderful locations without worrying about being killed, or running out of time.
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Post by vastariner on Dec 28, 2020 7:49:01 GMT
Can't pretend I'm not a teensy bit disappointed with the result of this one...I adore Moonrunner, and it places 2nd on my own personal rankings list (behind only Creature of Havoc), so had it won this vote it would have created a nice symmetry with my own list! Can't be too disappointed though, they're both magnificent titles thoroughly deserving of their top 3 status. It was a tight call. I went for Shadow because there's more of a sense of horror in the book, and a clever use of illustrations. Moonrunner maybe tried to do too much; dealing with Argolis for instance could be a book in itself.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Dec 29, 2020 3:21:22 GMT
Can't pretend I'm not a teensy bit disappointed with the result of this one...I adore Moonrunner, and it places 2nd on my own personal rankings list (behind only Creature of Havoc), so had it won this vote it would have created a nice symmetry with my own list! Can't be too disappointed though, they're both magnificent titles thoroughly deserving of their top 3 status. It was a tight call. I went for Shadow because there's more of a sense of horror in the book, and a clever use of illustrations. Moonrunner maybe tried to do too much; dealing with Argolis for instance could be a book in itself. That probably explains why I like it. To be honest, I would have voted, but I don't have a copy of Shadow Warriors, so couldn't read it to make a fair comparison.
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CharlesX
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 5, 2021 17:34:34 GMT
I wish I'd gotten into this website a few months ago so I could have voted in this thread. The fine Midnight Rogue, down in the bottom half. The memorable Knights Of Doom, below Spellbreaker. Even prioritising gameplay over writing and atmosphere, these rankings seem debatable.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Sept 5, 2021 20:36:13 GMT
Still seems bizarre to me that no Steve Jackson books made the top 5 and only 2 made the top 10.
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Post by petch on Sept 5, 2021 21:57:10 GMT
I think all in all the loftier positions are occupied with a pretty nice mix of early classics and the cream of the later crop. Looking at the list again I can't help feeling sorry for Chapman and Sharp though...while their work was never going to compete with the very best that the series had to offer I think that they deserved better than having their highest placed books ranked at the lowly places of 49 and 54.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Sept 6, 2021 7:47:44 GMT
Looking at the list again I can't help feeling sorry for Chapman and Sharp though...while their work was never going to compete with the very best that the series had to offer I think that they deserved better than having their highest placed books ranked at the lowly places of 49 and 54. Daggers is definitely in my personal Top 10 - haters be damned! I wouldn't rank any of Chapman's books that highly but Rings of Kether is a lot of fun, probably deserves upper half at least.
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 6, 2021 14:02:15 GMT
Revenge Of The Vampire.. Like other Keith Martin books, the writing, world-building and gameplay are high-quality, but the gold issue and several other technical errors ruin the ranking, which is just where it should be in my view. It really really deserves a professional reissue with the errors booted out, or an app. Imagine if they reissued Revenge Of The Vampire, but changed little, like the Spellbreaker reissue 😠.
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 6, 2021 14:42:08 GMT
I think all in all the loftier positions are occupied with a pretty nice mix of early classics and the cream of the later crop. Looking at the list again I can't help feeling sorry for Chapman and Sharp though...while their work was never going to compete with the very best that the series had to offer I think that they deserved better than having their highest placed books ranked at the lowly places of 49 and 54. I thought Seas Of Blood was one of the best books in the series. Aside from the high difficulty level (only marginally above other FF books), the plot was original and well-thought-out, and the gamebook enjoyable.
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Post by The Count on Sept 6, 2021 23:17:03 GMT
Still seems bizarre to me that no Steve Jackson books made the top 5 and only 2 made the top 10. For me, this isn't bizarre, more a reflection of what people actually think, and I'm glad that on here people can dare suggest that Spellbreaker sucks due to it being impossible. Elsewhere suggesting that it is anything other than a perfect gamebook will get you abused and banned (in that order as if you get banned first the abuse can't continue long after your apparently heinous opinion is silenced...). I never post in the facebook group, but I have noticed that whenever anyone dares suggest they do not worship Steve and Jonathon as the Best gamebook Writers EVAH111 they are aggressively forced out of the group at best (at worst banned from the platform they have been using for a long time with no issues), usually by someone who has form for abusive conduct yet has a pass for having a previously popular blog and managing to self publish his own efforts that make dog turds look like delicacies...
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CharlesX
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 7, 2021 4:17:01 GMT
Still seems bizarre to me that no Steve Jackson books made the top 5 and only 2 made the top 10. For me, this isn't bizarre, more a reflection of what people actually think, and I'm glad that on here people can dare suggest that Spellbreaker sucks due to it being impossible. Elsewhere suggesting that it is anything other than a perfect gamebook will get you abused and banned (in that order as if you get banned first the abuse can't continue long after your apparently heinous opinion is silenced...). I never post in the facebook group, but I have noticed that whenever anyone dares suggest they do not worship Steve and Jonathon as the Best gamebook Writers EVAH111 they are aggressively forced out of the group at best (at worst banned from the platform they have been using for a long time with no issues), usually by someone who has form for abusive conduct yet has a pass for having a previously popular blog and managing to self publish his own efforts that make dog turds look like delicacies... I've read a guy online who described Jonathan Green's works as 'dross', and in comparison with other writers put him well in the bottom half. There was a poster somewhere here who thought Creature Of Havoc was pretentious and overrated ('Sergio' wrote 'This was the worst book in the series for me') and I half-expected him to vote in my SJ v. IL poll. And I've already told you I think D. Morris isn't above criticism. I don't just think Spellbreaker sucks due to it being impossible, the gameplay and world-building are slightly cliche and boring, and whether or not IL has them as well, I don't like do-or-die bits. I like the artwork, though.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Sept 7, 2021 11:20:05 GMT
I never post in the facebook group, but I have noticed that whenever anyone dares suggest they do not worship Steve and Jonathon as the Best gamebook Writers EVAH111 they are aggressively forced out of the group at best (at worst banned from the platform they have been using for a long time with no issues) Never observed that to be fair. There is definitely a pro SJ/IL bias (or perhaps just a pro early books bias) on the Facebook groups, but never seen anyone abused for disagreeing with it - Lord knows I have plenty of times! I've seen a few flame wars on those groups - some of which have resulted in people being banned - but they've never started on account of which FF books people like/dislike.
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Post by petch on Sept 7, 2021 16:02:59 GMT
I think all in all the loftier positions are occupied with a pretty nice mix of early classics and the cream of the later crop. Looking at the list again I can't help feeling sorry for Chapman and Sharp though...while their work was never going to compete with the very best that the series had to offer I think that they deserved better than having their highest placed books ranked at the lowly places of 49 and 54. I thought Seas Of Blood was one of the best books in the series. Aside from the high difficulty level (only marginally above other FF books), the plot was original and well-thought-out, and the gamebook enjoyable. Yes. And you get to kick a Cyclops in the nuts.
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 11, 2021 13:45:00 GMT
Why is Legend Of Zagor so low at 65 (below Crypt)? It's flawed, with excessive combats, a below-average magic system, and a character system with a bias against the magic-user. It's also got an epic feel with the usual Keith Martin high-quality gamebook writing. It's not just a 'failed experiment'. Play as any character other than Sallazar and you will discover an enjoyable albeit long gamebook, and even Sallazar has his charms.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Sept 11, 2021 16:05:22 GMT
Why is Legend Of Zagor so low at 65 (below Crypt)? It's flawed, with excessive combats, a below-average magic system, and a character system with a bias against the magic-user. It's also got an epic feel with the usual Keith Martin high-quality gamebook writing. It's not just a 'failed experiment'. Play as any character other than Sallazar and you will discover an enjoyable albeit long gamebook, and even Sallazar has his charms. I think the consensus was that it outstays its welcome and then some.
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Post by tyrion on Sept 11, 2021 16:27:32 GMT
Why is Legend Of Zagor so low at 65 (below Crypt)? It's flawed, with excessive combats, a below-average magic system, and a character system with a bias against the magic-user. It's also got an epic feel with the usual Keith Martin high-quality gamebook writing. It's not just a 'failed experiment'. Play as any character other than Sallazar and you will discover an enjoyable albeit long gamebook, and even Sallazar has his charms. I think you either think it's a sprawling epic dungeon or a tedious chore. I like it, although I can't do it all in one sitting.
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Post by daredevil123 on Sept 11, 2021 21:22:18 GMT
Why is Legend Of Zagor so low at 65 (below Crypt)? It's flawed, with excessive combats, a below-average magic system, and a character system with a bias against the magic-user. It's also got an epic feel with the usual Keith Martin high-quality gamebook writing. It's not just a 'failed experiment'. Play as any character other than Sallazar and you will discover an enjoyable albeit long gamebook, and even Sallazar has his charms. I'm definitely not a fan of Legend of Zagor, but I still think it's leagues ahead of Crypt!
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Post by Wilf on Sept 12, 2021 23:51:26 GMT
Why is Legend Of Zagor so low at 65 (below Crypt)? It's flawed, with excessive combats, a below-average magic system, and a character system with a bias against the magic-user. It's also got an epic feel with the usual Keith Martin high-quality gamebook writing. It's not just a 'failed experiment'. Play as any character other than Sallazar and you will discover an enjoyable albeit long gamebook, and even Sallazar has his charms. I think you either think it's a sprawling epic dungeon or a tedious chore. I like it, although I can't do it all in one sitting. I think it is both; that it has little replay value; that it requires lots of dice rolls and little intelligence; that it's cursed with the usual Keith Martin horrible prose style; that it's cursed with the usual Keith Martin horrible hub-formats where you simply need to explore everywhere and complete everything; that it reads like a board game and not an actual story; that one of the four (white male) heroes is shafted by the need for a high Skill score to use magic successfully... It's not just a failed experiment, it's a boring failed experiment that's horrible to read and horrible to play. It's one of my bottom three Puffin FFs (along with two books whose titles end in "Lord"). It doesn't hold a candle to Crypt, and its low placing is extremely well deserved.
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Post by CharlesX on Sept 13, 2021 5:46:21 GMT
I think you either think it's a sprawling epic dungeon or a tedious chore. I like it, although I can't do it all in one sitting. I think it is both; that it has little replay value; that it requires lots of dice rolls and little intelligence; that it's cursed with the usual Keith Martin horrible prose style; that it's cursed with the usual Keith Martin horrible hub-formats where you simply need to explore everywhere and complete everything; that it reads like a board game and not an actual story; that one of the four (white male) heroes is shafted by the need for a high Skill score to use magic successfully... It's not just a failed experiment, it's a boring failed experiment that's horrible to read and horrible to play. It's one of my bottom three Puffin FFs (along with two books whose titles end in "Lord"). It doesn't hold a candle to Crypt, and its low placing is extremely well deserved. I agree with the points you raise (and the subjectivity, as well), but it's always been unclear to me Stubble is white or brown (that is, half-black). The illustration seems to give him slightly white cheeks (imho, inconsistent wi those of a worker, white or not) but a brown neck.
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Post by philsadler on Sept 13, 2021 6:26:31 GMT
I love brainwashed self-haters who've been brainwashed to hate their own race and gender. I wonder if people in Africa complain that there are too many blacks? No. They wouldn't be so stupid.
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Post by kieran on Sept 13, 2021 7:50:53 GMT
I feel the biggest problem with Legend of Zagor is it's essentially a window-dressed mathematical exercise. Pretty much every area you explore has a combat and an item that will help you in future combats. Since you can explore everywhere, the key to cracking the book is a meta-assessment of risk vs reward: does the reward down Path X outweigh the danger of Path X? Am I better doing Path X before Path Y, or the other way around, or just one or the other, or bypassing both and pressing on? I disagree with Wilf that the book doesn't require intelligence (I also disagree that Keith is a bad writer) because those calculations are not easy, but I also don't find them overly fun. And it doesn't help that in such a combat-oriented book, combat in FF is not very dynamic; say what you will about Blood of the Zombies but Ian made a smart move in introducing a faster-paced fighting system in a gamebook where there is nothing to do but fight, and perhaps Keith should have done the same (although he probably would not have been allowed to do so). The abundance of combat with tough enemies with special skills, the amount of bonuses and penalties to factor in, and the sheer scale of a book where you can explore everywhere make the whole thing frankly exhausting.
Moreover, I think it misses what for me is the fundamental appeal of gamebooks, which is allowing the reader to control the story. It caters to a whim when reading Lord of the Rings and thinking "what would have happened if Aragorn had followed Frodo into Mordor instead of heading into Rohan?". While FF rarely let the reader sway a story to that degree, the best books still gave you that sense - even if it was no more than "I wonder what would have happened if I had gone left instead of right at that T-junction? Perhaps I would have found the Sphere of Xylbolzdz which will allow me to bypass the Reverse Troll". All LOZ lets you do is vary the order of encounters or bypass them completely and it soon becomes apparent that the only reason to do so is to try to maximise bonuses and minimise penalties. Enemies, allies and items stop becoming interesting and just become numbers to input into your calculations.
Even at that, it's not done particularly well. The characters are not balanced, the magic system is near pointless and the margin for error in a book that focuses so much on exploration is alarmingly slight. Compare it to Night of the Necromancer which has a similar design but is much better balanced and more forgiving, the window dressing much more interesting, and the number crunching far less onerous.
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Post by peasantscribbler on Sept 13, 2021 12:38:45 GMT
I feel the biggest problem with Legend of Zagor is it's essentially a window-dressed mathematical exercise. Pretty much every area you explore has a combat and an item that will help you in future combats. Since you can explore everywhere, the key to cracking the book is a meta-assessment of risk vs reward: does the reward down Path X outweigh the danger of Path X? Am I better doing Path X before Path Y, or the other way around, or just one or the other, or bypassing both and pressing on? Yes, you've put words to exactly what I like about LoZ! Notably, the calculation is very different for each character. I didn't actually enjoy playing it much until I had successfully completed it with one character and went back to play it with the other characters using the detailed map I had made from the first campaign. I think I enjoy the puzzle aspect of gamebook design best, even when you're forced to use a lot of trial-and-error to find the solution. It seems that this is more important to me than a sense of immersion. Maybe so, but this happens in a lot of gamebooks, including better written and better designed books. I have never actually finished Creature of Havoc, probably due to exhaustion with it. (Don't get me wrong, I love the puzzle design of CoH too!) Yes, I think I like NotN for a lot of the same reasons that I like LoZ, but it is a better book overall.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Sept 13, 2021 13:40:55 GMT
Yes, you've put words to exactly what I like about LoZ! Yes, it's not that it's the wrong way to go about doing a gamebook, just not one that personally appeals to me. Destiny Quest was very much that approach to gamebooks and it has a lot of fans, I'm just not really one of them!
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sylas
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Post by sylas on Sept 13, 2021 16:08:47 GMT
Yes, you've put words to exactly what I like about LoZ! Yes, it's not that it's the wrong way to go about doing a gamebook, just not one that personally appeals to me. Destiny Quest was very much that approach to gamebooks and it has a lot of fans, I'm just not really one of them! I kind of dislike Destiny Quest for that reason but it does have a smidgen of a story near the end...but then it goes on into another story arc that leads to future adventures instead of wrapping up a solid conclusion. It's odd that I didn't enjoy the overdose of combat in DQ. Perhaps it's the overwhelming aspect of notetaking and resource management that I got sick of real quick. But I didn't mind it as much in Legend of Zagor. I even enjoyed the boss battles. The problem is the 'hub' mechanic is so overused that it no longer feels like a gamebook anymore. It may as well have said: here are 6 facedown cards. 2 are beneficial and you can take them with you, 2 will put you at a disadvantage, and of the last 2 - one will lead you back to the previous set of cards, and 1 will let you progress. When you are ready to progress, go to the next set of 6 facedown cards... Despite making any progress, you never get the sense that you are travelling or even exploring for that matter. Opening random doors to see what's on the other side gets tedious. And when you include all the calculations involved in combat and the various codes to reach hidden sections, it becomes a bore. You do the same from beginning to end, a near-infinite gauntlet of enemies and doors. After a while, it is no longer fun. The only thing driving your hero through the 'adventure' is your fracturing determination to reach the finish line since there is little to no story to hang on to.
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