sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 20, 2023 21:49:16 GMT
I'm considering putting in for this (taking the deadline as 11.59pm Monday, is that right?)
Question: Are you taking a strict line on 'Name [something]' means you really need a name, and uniquely identifying [something] isn't good enough? Or might there be some give on that for one or two of the questions? Yes you have all day and night for Monday. Depends what kind of answers you give and how much of a stretch they are. If you are uncertain, I would try to give the answers early so that I have time to let you know if they are acceptable or not. Leave it till the very last minute and you will receive very last minute treatment
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 20, 2023 6:04:54 GMT
I don't believe in thinking in such extremes unless it's for fun. The idea that the books should be winnable no matter how weak your initial attributes has been taken far too literally and seriously over the years. Having said that, the books should have a bit of leeway as well to account for all the adventurers who aren't maxed out.
A good reference into good FF gamebook design are from the works of Stephen Hand and Peter Darvill Evans. Night Dragon and Robot Commando are also extremely well designed.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 20, 2023 5:51:48 GMT
Answers received from hallucination, Peter and Peters wife.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 18, 2023 22:22:29 GMT
Well done for doing the full run. Must be quite draining after a while but respect. I do recognize Creature of Havoc for the masterpiece that it is, a very unique tale told with many peculiar and creative encounters leading to a great ending. However, I hate the dungeon part of it which feels far longer than it ought to be that becomes frustrating to navigate. The extra long and thorough, yet apparently pointless, Background is also annoying. These things keep it from being top tier for me, but at the same time, I fully understand when people heap praises on this adventure. The background has isn't that long and has good writing in my own opinion, but arguing about workers to a shower won't get us anywhere. As you say the background is apparently pointless, but I certainly don't find it annoying, because like petch it kept me engaged and sent me off on fake if interesting paths about Stittle Woad, Vallaska Roue, the Witches of Dree and so on. Jackson's technique of often presenting options that weren't apparent choices in the text was also effective in keeping my interest in dead-end areas. Perhaps you just don't like Jackson's writing, he is an atmospheric if sometimes sadistic gamebook writer but stuff like Trolltooth Wars is hardly up there with classics, probably not cult classics even. 'The background has isn't that long...' I think its the lengthiest Background we have in a FF gamebook. I found it a bit annoying because, while it's a good interesting read, it doesn't mean anything to the character you are playing so it felt like reading pages of info only to be told none of it means anything to you. I'm not having a go at the writing itself which is great, but I would have preferred if the info was incorporated into the areas you explore so that you find out all that for yourself within the story rather than having it all thrown at you from the beginning. This is only my opinion. Most people may not agree and that's fine too. 'arguing about workers to a shower won't get us anywhere' I have no idea what this means. 'Perhaps you just don't like Jackson's writing' One of my favourite books in the series is House of Hell, and I also love Sorcery! 2 and 3. I also said I can see how Creature of Havoc is a masterpiece so I do respect the writing and while it's not in my top rankings, that doesn't mean I don't like Steve's work. It's possible to just like and appreciate something without being an absolute fan of it.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 18, 2023 19:19:56 GMT
Well done for doing the full run. Must be quite draining after a while but respect.
I do recognize Creature of Havoc for the masterpiece that it is, a very unique tale told with many peculiar and creative encounters leading to a great ending. However, I hate the dungeon part of it which feels far longer than it ought to be that becomes frustrating to navigate. The extra long and thorough, yet apparently pointless, Background is also annoying. These things keep it from being top tier for me, but at the same time, I fully understand when people heap praises on this adventure.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 18, 2023 15:29:44 GMT
There was apparently a poll to decide what the title would be called. The options were 'Blood of the Zombies' and 'Escape from Zombie Castle'. Escape from Zombie Castle sounds like a much cooler and appropriate name but the enigmatic votes (whoever they were made by) went with Blood of the Zombies.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 17, 2023 16:19:03 GMT
Just had a quick glance. One thing I would personally change is the page numbers at the bottom of each page so that they DO NOT align with the reference numbers. It looks a bit confusing when aligned.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 17, 2023 13:52:23 GMT
Moonrunner has wonderful atmosphere and is probably the best designed gamebook in the FF series for its versatility, balance and fairness. The world is rich and filled with colourful characters even though those colours are shades of grim, dark, forebodingness. The Skills add a lot to the pace and structure of the adventure and literally any made hero with any range of attributes and Skill choices can win through.
For its near-flawless design, however, there are a couple of things that don't work well for me personally. The end confrontation is very short and anticlimactic - you just stand there and take Gruul's magic and hope you survive and there's no dealing with the majority of his army. The biggest gripe I have however, is the title. It just doesn't do what it says on the tin and while I understand its meaning, it isn't interpreted well enough in the storytelling to give any impact. When you complete the book, it feels more like an afterthought than anything of importance.
Still, that doesn't take too much away from the overall adventure which features some of the best encounters and settings, given life by Martin Mckenna's brilliant artwork, and remains a fun and enjoyable experience throughout.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 16, 2023 23:30:17 GMT
Answers received from vastariner. 6 contestants now so there'll be competition.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 16, 2023 16:11:31 GMT
The beauty of House of Hell is that the design of the house is massive but the atmosphere makes it very claustrophobic.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 16, 2023 14:20:48 GMT
Answers received from kieran.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 15, 2023 19:12:53 GMT
Less than a week to go and only 4 contestants so far. I'll go ahead with it anyway even though competition will be slim. Maybe we'll get a 4 way tie.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 15, 2023 14:55:25 GMT
I think I know your number 1 and 2. But I also thought Deathtrap Dungeon would be number 3. Can't remember what it might be now.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 14, 2023 21:54:35 GMT
As many as are needed. Which will vary depending on the adventure. What next, a poll on how many nouns are required for the ideal FF book? How many words not containing the letter 'e'? How many opponents with an even-numbered Stamina score? I believe he's asking for our personal preference. I see nothing wrong with that.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 14, 2023 18:39:41 GMT
It would be interesting to find out why 3 out of 7 people have voted no to this poll. I am assuming all members of this forum are FF fans so it seems strange that nearly half of an admittedly small sample would not be interested in this? I suppose not every gamebook reader is also interested in boardgames. No matter - the game has nearly 2000 backers now and likely to go over.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 12, 2023 19:15:40 GMT
Regarding questions 4 and 5, does the place/location need to appear in an illustration of a map in one of the books? Or is any place name mentioned in a book acceptable even if it doesn't appear on any map? It needs to be readable on an illustrated map.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 12, 2023 18:27:49 GMT
I sure must be an FF fan then! City of Thieves being one of the first I ever completed it was one that I have done so many times I cant even remember. Am I the only one who didn't consider it a proper run if I didn't do the deadly pill game down that norrow alley, or won the game for the Bays? Bays = sometimes. Deadly pill game = no, that's seriously risky. I'd go off path again and again just to maximise gold, and think fallaciously "1 in 6, that's never going to happen." It did happen, probably more than 1 in 6 times. Livingstone and other fighting fantasy kind of taught me not only logical skills in working out true path, but also when to give up and when the author was being unfair!
1 in 6 chance is more than generous to win a lot of Gold. Nothing about it is being unfair. The rules are clear and the gambler doesn't cheat. If you played and lost, maybe you should have thought twice before attempting a quick get rich scheme. Being unlucky with the dice is not unfair.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 12, 2023 14:15:40 GMT
Night Dragon is unexpected at this high ranking but a welcome one nonetheless. Some have groaned about it being too long due to the many drawn out combats and flimsy usage of the Time Track but personally, I love it. The visit to the 6 special locations is excellent and can almost be done in any order. The combats while tough are quite manageable if you go to certain places in the right order to improve your equipment and the often overlooked additions to your Initial scores during character creation give most adventurers a decent fighting chance to succeed. A very well balanced book with some epic encounters and badass items to collect. Perhaps not the most engaging when it comes to storytelling but enjoyable and epic enough to be a solid entry in the FF series.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 12, 2023 10:22:34 GMT
Coming after Phantoms of Fear I was wondering why this was ranked so low then noticed it was number 9.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 12, 2023 9:37:32 GMT
Answers received from trialmaster.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 11, 2023 16:27:46 GMT
A good solid gamebook can be written in 100 sections or even fewer. If FF had already done several books with fewer sections it wouldn't seem out of place to have them now at say, 300 sections. However, since that was not the case, having fewer than 400 does make the reader feel short changed and that is never a good thing. 400 or more has been the norm for FF for long enough to not necessitate a change. The only way I can see it as being okay is to start with a spin off series like what Goldhawk did and begin right off the bat with fewer sections. Ironically Eye Of The Dragon in particular could have had fewer than 400 references once you take out several "let's kill the shopkeeper", and some obvious\cheap\arbitrary deaths (you open an unmarked door after passing another completely featureless left-right fork - the door closes behind you with a loud bang, you die in the same reference, not quite Sir Ian), but it seems Livingstone reckoned having 407 references was preferable to 399 for the reasons you and I have given. Freeway Fighter is an example of an FF having just a few short of 400 because everything was tight (a point petch makes in his ranking thread), where Gates Of Death had many more than 400 but is a bottom half FF, so on that basis I wouldn't say no about it if an FF were done well. I don't see as mission impossible say a scenario where Jackson wants another shot at a sci-fi gamebook, or Livingstone has a tale to tell that doesn't require 400 references, something like that, but the norm has moved from normally 400, sometimes more, sometimes fewer, to at least 400 and often more, just as you point out. I was more stating that because the FF series has gone on for so long with the majority of the books being at 400 sections, it would be kind of jarring if the series was suddenly not 400 sections. By that, I don't mean 399 or 402 sections. I mean if 300 sections (or an even lesser margin) became the new norm, that is what authors will aim for rather than aiming for 400 and ending up with 351 sections. While that shouldn't affect the quality of the writing, it will leave fans wondering where the rest of the book went. But otherwise, yeah, the number of sections doesn't determine if a book will be good, but for FF it might feel too much like an unnecessary break of tradition that fans have been familiar with.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 11, 2023 15:04:31 GMT
A good solid gamebook can be written in 100 sections or even fewer. If FF had already done several books with fewer sections it wouldn't seem out of place to have them now at say, 300 sections. However, since that was not the case, having fewer than 400 does make the reader feel short changed and that is never a good thing. 400 or more has been the norm for FF for long enough to not necessitate a change. The only way I can see it as being okay is to start with a spin off series like what Goldhawk did and begin right off the bat with fewer sections.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 9, 2023 15:16:49 GMT
Almost halving the target goal was a massive improvement, as is the reduced game cost and shipping cost, the reduced VAT, the preferred wooden tokens and the bonus Forest of Doom scenario 2. All in all, there's little reason not to back it if you have any interest in the game. They really should have opened with this campaign which is better presented and thought out in every way.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 9, 2023 15:10:32 GMT
Answers received from Gabe Fandango.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 8, 2023 15:50:20 GMT
4. Identify a place or location on any map that contains a number anywhere in its name. (For example, the name 'Wolfherten' would contain the number 'ten'.) Please provide the name of the gamebook and reference number (if applicable).
Does it have to come from a single word of the name? Like, for example, does something like Ifor Tynin = 40 qualify (I know it does not because he's a person and not a location, but you get the idea)? I never thought of it that way but I think for the sake of our sanities, I would have to rule Yes. No gaps anywhere.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 7, 2023 21:15:36 GMT
It's a Yes from me.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 4, 2023 18:59:49 GMT
Answers received from petch and evilwizard.
I forgot to check if we had enough players interested before I posted so, fingers crossed, more answers will come later.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 2, 2023 15:06:02 GMT
The new launch already sounds more attainable and more affordable so that would be a better start. Anyone considering backing it should Follow their page on Gamefound as well to get a further $5.00 discount (not much but I'll take it). In addition, it looks like it's going to cover some of the VAT-heavy countries so be sure to select the VAT Friendly option if it applies to you. Link here: gamefound.com/projects/martin-wallace/fighting-fantasy
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 2, 2023 14:51:09 GMT
Alice is actually one of the most balanced gamebooks when it comes to character creation. Curiouser is a disadvantage but there's nothing stopping you from not using it. The chess puzzle is the only major flaw that I can see, but gameplay and combats are all winnable with almost no matter what stats you choose to begin with. My point is more that with Alice the tray is too beneficial, the highest of the codewords ('Phantasm') when squaring off at the end can only be attained with heavy difficulty (arguably an inconsistency, like his Temple Of The Spider-God where you are asked if you have something (sacrificial knife?) where it is not just hard or very hard but impossible you do, so long as you're after proper victory), the battles are easy after you have the tray. It was you who remarked in the Oz thread you thought his Oz was too easy. -Yeah the tray is kinda broken but I don't feel it takes away from the overall design of the adventure and some opponents can still be deadly to fight against. -Phantasm too improbable to get? Good job you don't have to have it to win. Maybe it's not meant to be included for a 'proper victory'. -I remarked that Oz was too easy? I suppose I did. I still stand by that.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 2, 2023 14:34:07 GMT
I have had to make an alteration to Q7 as I realized the number of possible answers was far too low and the question too specific. Sorry for the inconvenience and anyone who has already sent their answers may change this one if they have thought of a better option. The question has now been altered to:
7. Identify an interior illustration that includes a person or creature noticeably struck by 2 or more arrows (or similar projectiles). Please provide the name of the gamebook and reference number.
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