kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 30, 2019 12:13:32 GMT
Since mythology talks of gorgons cohabiting, they're immune to each others' gazes. Since basilisks have such a unique birth, they can kill each other with their gazes. It would seem odd though if in FF a gorgon could turn herself to stone by seeing her own reflection, but she would be immune to seeing other gorgons. This isn't an issue in the original mythology where a reflection of a gorgon is not sufficient to turn anyone to stone.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Sept 30, 2019 12:44:34 GMT
Fair enough. I don't recall turning gorgons to stone (aren't they called medusas in FF?), and I haven't read Out of the Pit in eons, but if that's the case, they'd kill each other too. Like I say, it's a matter of preference, and FF isn't always consistent anyway.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 30, 2019 13:10:00 GMT
Fair enough. I don't recall turning gorgons to stone (aren't they called medusas in FF?) Return to Firetop Mountain is one example where you can do so. I think it is referred to as a Gorgon but I could be wrong.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Sept 30, 2019 13:18:40 GMT
I haven't played it, but Titannica lists a gorgon among the encounters for that book. So perhaps another question is, are gorgons and medusas the same or related creatures. Perhaps one is vulnerable to its reflection, and therefore to others of its kind, while the other isn't.
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Post by jmisbest on Sept 30, 2019 17:45:38 GMT
Just for a laugh I decided to generate my new Pc in my 2nd campaign using my Solo RPG Rules, complete with very detailed Background Rules that cover many pages, but I have a problem. Can someone help?
The 4D6 roll came up A 24 then The 1st 1D6 roll came up A 1, the 2nd 1D6 roll came up A 5 then both of The 2D6 roll's came up A 4 to 6
Which means that he is the oldest child of The Queen of, hence will himself once day be The King of, A Newly discovered Country that covers all of A Newly discovered Very Small Continent
So do any of you have any ideas how to justify The Crown Prince, and Future King, of a country that covers all of A Very Small Continent becoming a adventurer and what extra goodies he or she should start with?
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Post by a moderator on Sept 30, 2019 17:55:56 GMT
Why do your Background Rules include the option for rolling up someone you find it hard to justify becoming an adventurer?
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Post by jmisbest on Sept 30, 2019 18:01:52 GMT
Why do your Background Rules include the option for rolling up someone you find it hard to justify becoming an adventurer? Mainly for a laugh cos I figured it would never happen. Plus the rules for this solo campaigns that uses no GM just A Players Honesty where wrote in early September of 95 when I was a very foolish, very arrogant and very conceited 11 year old who had major delusions of grandeur in both RPG's that I did at the time and who turned 12 7 weeks later and only found the almost 24 year old rules back in late July this year
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Post by a moderator on Sept 30, 2019 18:04:02 GMT
Ian has had issues with consistency before now (the way City of Thieves has some items that add to Attack strength and others increasing Skill, for example), so I doubt that there's any deliberate differentiation between Gorgon and Medusa. But there's nothing to stop fans from designating them similar but distinct species. You just need someone sufficiently obsessed to compare all the relevant encounters and extrapolate rules governing precisely how they differ.
ETA: That wasn't me volunteering, by the way.
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Post by a moderator on Sept 30, 2019 18:15:53 GMT
Why do your Background Rules include the option for rolling up someone you find it hard to justify becoming an adventurer? Mainly for a laugh cos I figured it would never happen. Plus the rules for this solo campaigns that uses no GM just A Players Honesty where wrote in early September of 95 when I was a very foolish, very arrogant and very conceited 11 year old who had major delusions of grandeur in both RPG's that I did at the time and who turned 12 7 weeks later and only found the almost 24 year old rules back in late July this year Watch out for Lou Reed and his laser beam eyes. If the rules allow for something to happen, no matter how improbable, there's always a chance that it will happen. A joke rule stating that casting a Stamina spell has a 1 in 6,046,176 chance of causing the entire universe to implode into nothingness is just a silly gag right up until a player rolls 10 sixes in a row and irreparably breaks your campaign.
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Post by jmisbest on Sept 30, 2019 18:32:23 GMT
Thanks for the sarcasm, mainly cos I'm 1 of the few who likes it
As for starting loot I was thinking of the following. After all he's a prince and future king so he'll likely be armed, armoured and equipped to the teeth
Plus to make adventures a small challenge no monster followers gained other then those gained in Warlock of Firetop Mountain via Zagors Book of Arts, who will only be with me in Armies of Death and similiar, and very little access to Spells and/or Skills other than those got via Zagors Book of Arts. Ooops just remembered that I'd decided that he's not getting Zagors Ex Followers or FF Versions of AFF Spells and/or Skills. Sorry
Loot wise 150+4D6 Gold Coins, 2D6x10 Gold Coins worth of other stuff of value from various FF Books, 3D3 Tiny Gems worth 1 Gold Coin each and 1D3 very small Crystal Birds worth 1D3+5 Gold Coins each
Magical goodies wise 1 Magic Sword that has no bonuses but can harm things that can only be harmed by magic, A Money Box that covers all costs below 60 Gold Coins, A Magic Floating Crate that'll hold everything he owns, A set of magic plate and cup that'll provide all his food and drink needs and A Magic Potions Bottle that gives 2 Doses of Potion of Healing per adventure
Other stuff wise 2D2+5 doses of poisons that are effective VS S Orcs and the same number VS Undead, 2D6+2 yards of rope, all the stuff that I normally give A Adventure but at very high quality and 1D3 other weapons and/or bits of armor and/or other things of use from various FF Books, none magical of course
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Post by jmisbest on Sept 30, 2019 18:39:51 GMT
I also rolled A 6+2 or 8 for Skill, A 12+4 2 or 18 for Stamina and A 6+6 or 12 for Luck. All in all not exactly a warrior king is he?
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Post by schlendrian on Sept 30, 2019 22:03:13 GMT
As for starting loot I was thinking of the following. After all he's a prince and future king so he'll likely be armed, armoured and equipped to the teeth Like the king of Arion, for example?
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Sept 30, 2019 22:24:42 GMT
Exactly! For the adventure writer, as with any writing, gaps in canon and inconsistencies are opportunities for world-building. There's no right, canonical answer to whether gorgons and basilisks can kill each other, so decide what makes the most sense for your adventure. I'd definitely give my heroes the chance to lure one into the lair of the other, and perhaps they'll both become statues gazing at one another (an odd scene for future adventurers to stumble upon). Or perhaps they'll have some kind of a stare-off until one of them perishes. Or perhaps the heroes can go full Perseus and decapitate the gorgon to use her head against the basilisk. Or switch it; use the basilisks head against the gorgon. So the real answer to the op's questions are; whatever suits your needs. Then decide on a reason that fits what's been established.
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Post by jmisbest on Oct 3, 2019 6:31:47 GMT
I've created the ultimate spell for my Epic FF RPG. Please rate it
Supreme Power. Cost 20 none-permanent Stamina, 4 permanent Stamina and ages caster 1 decade
Can only be successfully cast once in your life and only attempted once per 5 years/20 adventures unless GM rules otherwise. Raises The Casters Permanent Stats to Skill 12, Stamina 29-4 or 25 and Luck 12 or by +5-1 or +1 Stamina, +1 Skill and +1 Luck, whichevers higher. Also 2D3+1 of The Characters AFF Skills go up by +1 and if he or she's done any adventures prior to casting that grant Skills then the caster gains 1D2 that he/she/it didn't have/choose/earn
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Post by vastariner on Oct 4, 2019 16:51:21 GMT
Bit of myth-information about the Gorgons.
Originally there seems to have been just one Gorgon (per Homer) and there was no stone-turning; she was an underworld monster whom Athene had decapitated and whose head was in the middle of her shield. A century or two later Hesiod triples them into seamonster sisters; Medusa, Stheno, and Euryale, the latter two of whom were immortal, and whose parents were Phorcys and Ceto, who seemed to spawn a number of monsters (e.g. Echidna).
By the time you get to Roman times, Medusa was a babe whom Poseidon fell for, and they made out in a temple of Athene. For which she transformed Medusa's blonde locks into snakes. In one version, out of pity, so no god would mate with her again.
What happened to Stheno and Euryale is unrecorded...perhaps they're still in their sea lair, which has been placed in Libya, Cape Verde, the Straits of Gibraltar, or the underworld.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Oct 4, 2019 18:10:39 GMT
Excellent! Do you think it likely that the gorgon head began simply as an image for warding off evil? A jack o'lantern kind of thing?
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Post by jmisbest on Oct 5, 2019 13:40:27 GMT
Can you rate this new Spell of Mine for my Solo FF RPG that is based off of my favorite feature from The Code Lyoko TV Show?. Please and thank you
It is called Return to The Past and it has A 10 Stamina Cost It can only be used twice per adventure. Returns the caster to the start of the adventure. He or she keeps all knowledge, goods, treasure, magical stuff and other useful stuff he or she acquired, which can allow you to redo some adventures on different paths for even more stuff, but the foes he or she killed are not dead, which gives very little room for different paths in the likes of Assassins of Allansia and Sorcery Book 3/The Seven Serpents
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Post by a moderator on Oct 5, 2019 14:39:59 GMT
How does the item retention work?
Say you're playing TWoFM, and you go the wrong way after the portcullis, so you miss the key guarded by the Iron Cyclops, but get the other correct ones. When you realise you're missing a key, you cast the spell and go back to the start. So what happens if you go back into the room with the snake in the box? According to the description above, the snake is there, still alive, but what about the key it was guarding first time round? Is there now a second copy of that key in the box, or did it vanish in a puff of logic as soon as you reappeared outside the mountain with the key already in your possession?
If the spell duplicates items, what happens with live acquisitions? If you cast the spell after visiting Zengis in Armies of Death, is Roob cloned? Could you equip yourself with two spares of the Skull of Mora Tao in Moonrunner?
If the spell doesn't duplicate the items, what happens with treasure that's part of a living creature - the teeth a Sorcery! wizard extracts from dead Giants and Goblins, or the horn of the Gargantis? Do the original owners suffer Stamina loss when parts of their bodies just vanish?
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Post by vastariner on Oct 5, 2019 16:10:49 GMT
I reckon so. I also reckon some of the ancient artists missed the point about the hideously-ugly thing, some Medusas in later mosaics are quite cute.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 6, 2019 1:49:03 GMT
I usually think my Greek mythology isn't too bad, but I've been left standing by this discussion. A silly meme will have to be my contribution:
Intersting, I hadn't even been aware that these were creatures of ff lore... Therefore my answer is based mainly on mythology. The gorgons were sisters who frequently saw each other. It's unthinkable that this could have happened if they weren't immune to each other, so answer to question 1 is "no" to me.Basilisks is harder, since basically they are very solitary and never meet each other. But they get turned to stone even by their own sight, so I'd say that the sight of another basilisk should do the trick as well. As for the third question, no idea. I'd say "yes" Not entirely relevant to the current discussion, but Dr Who fans will be reminded of Weeping Angels – monsters which appear as stone statues but can move like lightning provided that no one is currently looking at them, including each other. (I think there's some quantum theory mumbo jumbo explaining this.) Their 'weeping' appearance is due to covering their eyes most of the time to minimise the chances of their catching sight of (and immobilising) one another. The Doctor neutralises a group of them by tricking them into positioning themselves facing each other with their eyes open, rendering them all motionless indefinitely. No doubt their creator (Steven Moffat, I think) was putting his own spin on the myth of the Gorgons by creating sort of inverted-Gorgons.
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Post by jmisbest on Oct 6, 2019 5:17:21 GMT
A few hours back I dug out more Spells that I created for A FF RPG back in the 90's, here they are. What do you think?
Greater Breathe Dragonic Fire. 15 Stamina Cost
Can only be cast once per adventure and for the rest of the adventure can Breathe Fire like A Dragon between 4 and 10 times, you get to choose how much damage you do but must do between 4 and 10 damage each time and can't do more then 40 damage in total
Greater Immunity. 15 Stamina Cost
Can only be cast once per adventure and for the rest of the adventure you are immune to all poisons, illnesses, diseases and conditions that aren't magical and can only be harmed by magic weapons and spells
Greater Summon Herbs. 6 Stamina Cost
Can be used up to twice per adventure and both times will summon either 2D2+4 doses of A Herb of your choice or 5D2+3 Gold Coins worth of Saffron
Instant Solve Puzzle. 4 Stamina
No limit to how many times you can cast it in theory but can only be cast when a puzzle has you stumped and it lets you instantly solve it, even if failure would mean death or the eventual failure of your quest
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Post by vastariner on Oct 6, 2019 11:01:55 GMT
I think the problem is that if you start an adventure with 16 stamina, you'd just summon a load of healing herbs, get back to 16st, cast the first one, use some of the herbs, then cast the second one and use more herbs.
So you end up with a character immune to most things and able to obliterate most opponents.
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Post by a moderator on Oct 6, 2019 11:36:33 GMT
Did you ever devise a spell that allows the player to turn immediately to section 400 (or the victory section if it's differently numbered) without having to go to all the bother of playing the adventure? That seems to be the way this is headed.
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Post by jmisbest on Oct 6, 2019 11:52:31 GMT
Did you ever devise a spell that allows the player to turn immediately to section 400 (or the victory section if it's differently numbered) without having to go to all the bother of playing the adventure? That seems to be the way this is headed.
True but these were designed back in the mid 90's when I'd wrote A Solo RPG that didn't need A GM, only a honest player and where designed only to be A Extreme Last Resort to snatch victory from defeat. But despite that we were all young and foolish once and I had friends that had made up even more over-powered in A Very Big Way Spells for 1st edition Warhammer RPG, DAD and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons?
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Post by a moderator on Oct 6, 2019 12:09:28 GMT
Players being players, what gets designed for the last resort winds up being used for convenience's sake, loopholes are mercilessly exploited, and gameplay goes out of the window in favour of winning at all costs.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Oct 6, 2019 13:33:44 GMT
I usually think my Greek mythology isn't too bad, but I've been left standing by this discussion. [ Lol I suspect your knowledge is perfectly good, but as with any subject, you can delve as deep as you'd like. As someone with a love of mythology, world-building and fantasy, I'd enjoy more discussions about the creatures of FF and how they relate to the wider world, their mythical origins, and what about them may not have been covered by canon.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 6, 2019 22:39:17 GMT
Did you ever devise a spell that allows the player to turn immediately to section 400 (or the victory section if it's differently numbered) without having to go to all the bother of playing the adventure? That seems to be the way this is headed.
True but these were designed back in the mid 90's when I'd written A Solo RPG that didn't need A GM, only a honest player and where designed only to be A Extreme Last Resort to snatch victory from defeat. But despite that we were all young and foolish once and I had friends that had made up even more over-powered in A Very Big Way Spells for 1st edition Warhammer RPG, DAD and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons? What's the difference between 'a solo RPG that didn't need A GM' and a gamebook? Anyway it sounds like you understand what everyone is going to say about this: that you made the classic young player's mistake of thinking that the more powerful your character is the more fun you have. In fact you just end up sitting in a room saying "BOOOM hahahaha" over and over, which gets boring pretty quickly unless you're stoned. I'd say that in general the principle should be that if you have a spell with a very powerful effect, either there should be strictly limited circumstances under which you can use it (this spell can kill all your enemies instantly – but only if they're all ogres and it's twilight), or there should be real downsides/risks. I don't think I'd ever want to include a Solve Puzzles spell into an adventure. It gets to the point where you don't need honest players because you're incorporating the things they'd cheat at into the rules. However, if I had to include one, the costs would be: -2 initial SKILL and LUCK and -4 initial STAMINA and Roll 1D6. A score of 1 results in instant, unrecoverable death (preferably something appropriate or ironic – eg miscasting the spell to open a secret door leads to it flying open and crushing you against the wall). That should give pause for thought. Of course having a GM broadens the possibilities because it's easier to keep things hidden. How about the hero learning a spell which can cause lightning to strike their enemy at the start of any battle, deducting 8 STAMINA automatically? Sure. But unbeknownst to the player, if they try to cast it a second time during the same day, it will hit them instead. This should never be explained, it should just happen. Such are the risks of trying to control such powerful forces.
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Post by schlendrian on Oct 8, 2019 13:24:43 GMT
As someone with a love of mythology, world-building and fantasy, I'd enjoy more discussions about the creatures of FF and how they relate to the wider world, their mythical origins, and what about them may not have been covered by canon. Seconded!
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Post by jmisbest on Oct 10, 2019 16:14:03 GMT
How would you suggest handling a unique experimental weapon that's part-technological and part-magical that has no effect on foes with no armour but if the target has armour then the heavier their armour the more damage they take?
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Post by jmisbest on Oct 12, 2019 14:51:37 GMT
friend of mine whose playing A Solo FF RPG with another GM fairly rolled A Skill 12, Stamina 24 and Luck 12 Super Character and I know cos I saw him. But his GM made him reroll cos he/The GM didn't see it and doesn't believe me cos he's very stubborn he refuses to believe someone could be that lucky unless he sees it himself and very sadly this time he rolled A mere Skill 8, Stamina 20 and Luck 9 character. So what would you advise my friend do?
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